Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: DomP on May 26, 2024, 06:26:01 PM
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Is a CB550 and 750 reflector the same? Mine on my 550 is a Stanley 001-1217 but a previous owner has fitted a strange bulb that has meant they've used an oil seal to hold it in place. Can I retro fit an H4 Led to it?
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My 500 headlamp is a standard UK style 7" unit.
It has the three lugs similar to those on the old sealed beam headlights.
I fitted a Land Rover Defender 90 type LED headlamp unit but pretty much any old style 7" headlamp will fit.
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I was more wondering I could retain this reflector but retro fit an H4 led Ted
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I don't know the answer,
But I have a H4 bulb,in a non standard reflector,
Fitting Cebie or similar used to be an upgrade
Sent from my SM-A546E using Tapatalk
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This is the LED that I fitted to the original reflector on my F1 which is a direct replacement for the original bulb that you have (P45T).
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r)
While you're at it I recommend updating the side light bulb as well (BA9S).
It's very bright and would almost suffice as a day running light.
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/ba9s-bright-white-200-lumen-t4w-233-led-drl-sidelight-upgrade-bulb-llb233-llb989?_pos=3&_sid=db90a2d79&_ss=r (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/ba9s-bright-white-200-lumen-t4w-233-led-drl-sidelight-upgrade-bulb-llb233-llb989?_pos=3&_sid=db90a2d79&_ss=r)
Hope this helps
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Thanks Skoti, that looks the best and easiest option. Mine must be missing a retaining clip or something for there to be an oil seal used to hold the P45T bulb in.
One last question, did you use a 4300k bulb? 6000k might be a bit blue?
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That is a standard car bulb and there is an H4 equvalent, i will see if i can find a number for you cos im bored
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Thanks Skoti, that looks the best and easiest option. Mine must be missing a retaining clip or something for there to be an oil seal used to hold the P45T bulb in.
One last question, did you use a 4300k bulb? 6000k might be a bit blue?
Yes, I used the 6000k bulb and it's a bit blue. Maybe the warm white would look a bit better on an old classic motorcycle but that's your choice.
BTW
there should be a spring below the headlamp bulb retaining cup to hold the bulb in place.
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Are these the bulbs, pic of halogen
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Pic of original
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That is a standard car bulb and there is an H4 equvalent, i will see if i can find a number for you cos im bored
Bryan,
I first made the mistake of fitting a normal H4 halogen bulb, and found the charging system would not cope well when driving in towns etc.
I have a volt meter fitted and noticed the voltage drop below 11.5 volts when waiting at traffic lights and road junctions.
I switched back to the standard 410 bulb to rectify the problem, but now have an LED which obviously has an even lower power draw.
Volt Meter:-
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GQUC6TZKV9SkJBCh9 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/GQUC6TZKV9SkJBCh9)
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Thanks Bryan, I've got an original style globe type bulb fitted currently
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Back in 76 as a young(er) rider i fitted a h4 unit and with lights on stayed 1 gear lower than in daylight, not forgetting in UK we can switch lights off
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Sorry I slightly misunderstood your question.
As has been said the current draw of a modern H4 Quartz Iodine bulb might be a tad high, the other consideration is the dip pattern cut off might not be good.
I am a fan of fitting an LED bulb as I did originally on my 400. Beware of cheap ones off eBay I had one that stopped working after just a few on & off cycles.
I sent a message to LED classics to find the right bulb as the important heat sink can cause issues of being too long when fitted either inside the light unit or outside. Again as the reflectors were designed for the build design Honda used there will always be a compromise in terms of scatter and dip cut off.
If you search the posts Oddjob did a lot of research on this with photos of the result of using different bulbs. I suspect like moths are attracted to light we are attracted to big Lumen numbers. In the end that's why I fitted a complete headlight designed from the off for LED only use so the reflector gives a good dip cut off and a nice high beam plus low current draw.
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Usually the lens will have 'H4' in the center of the glass, if the reflector is fit for halogen bulbs.
The socalled 'charging shortcoming' of the these bikes is an urban myth. I've had a 55/60 Watts bulb all those years - my model came standard with it! - and never had a problem, not even with 3 Ohms coils and a transistor ignition. Every ride I return to the garage with a better charged battery than I took of with. 44 years of experience here. I recommend Philips. The Extreme Vision Moto H4 and Osram Nightbreaker came out best in tests and that Philips was especially developed for motorcycles and can cope with vibrations up to 10G.
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The correct fitment LED replacement from Classic Car Leds seems the sensible option to me Ted, it'll save the charging system a bit and suit my other led upgrades. It's 3mm longer but I don't think that will cause a problem in the original headlight bowl.
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This is the LED that I fitted to the original reflector on my F1 which is a direct replacement for the original bulb that you have (P45T).
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r)
While you're at it I recommend updating the side light bulb as well (BA9S).
It's very bright and would almost suffice as a day running light.
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/ba9s-bright-white-200-lumen-t4w-233-led-drl-sidelight-upgrade-bulb-llb233-llb989?_pos=3&_sid=db90a2d79&_ss=r (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/ba9s-bright-white-200-lumen-t4w-233-led-drl-sidelight-upgrade-bulb-llb233-llb989?_pos=3&_sid=db90a2d79&_ss=r)
Hope this helps
Hi all,
I ordered the P45T by mistake,
So anyone want it?
£10 plus 2,95 p&p
Just message me
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240531/6022d37761966ec36083b5cb35d00df7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240531/456d769190100e80d143d5fefe2c390e.jpg)
Sent from my SM-A546E using Tapatalk
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I don't know the answer,
But I have a H4 bulb,in a non standard reflector,
Fitting Cebie or similar used to be an upgrade
Sent from my SM-A546E using Tapatalk
John,
apologies if I mislead you, P45t seems to be fitted to standard reflectors only...
Anyhow I can recommend this LED replacement bulb for extra brightness and lower power consumption as suitable for our old bikes.
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I have just bought the P43T LED for my Cibie. I have gone for 3000k Cool White because it has a more yellowish light to it. Having read up on a few things relating to cars etc pulling out on bikers it has been indicated (not proven) that a headlight with a yellowish tint is more noticeable to car drivers. Bright white tends to get washed out with all the cars nowadays that have their sidelights permanently on.
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I have just bought the P43T LED for my Cibie. I have gone for 3000k Cool White because it has a more yellowish light to it. Having read up on a few things relating to cars etc pulling out on bikers it has been indicated (not proven) that a headlight with a yellowish tint is more noticeable to car drivers. Bright white tends to get washed out with all the cars nowadays that have their sidelights permanently on.
Dave,
in order to avoid further confusion please may I point out that the cool white LED you mention is actually 6000k, it's the warm white LED that's 3000k and as you note probably the more appropriate looking LED for our old nails.
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r)
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Just read a test of aftermarket Led headlamps. Best was the Osram Nightbreaker Led Pro. Problem is, it won't fit in our headlights. Moreover such a LED bulb is not streetlegal unless in a reflector made for LED headlamps.
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Just read a test of aftermarket Led headlamps. Best was the Osram Nightbreaker Led Pro. Problem is, it won't fit in our headlights. Moreover such a LED bulb is not streetlegal unless in combination with a reflector made for LED headlamps.
LED bulbs from Classic Car LEDs are street legal
'The MOT rules have been clarified from 06.02.23 to allow the use of LED conversions that pass the beam pattern tests for headlights for Class 3, 4, 5 and 7 vehicles (car, private bus and light commercial vehicle) first used before 1 April 1986 and all class 1 and 2 motorcycles of any age'.
Please read the red text at the bottom of this link:-
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r)
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I have just bought the P43T LED for my Cibie. I have gone for 3000k Cool White because it has a more yellowish light to it. Having read up on a few things relating to cars etc pulling out on bikers it has been indicated (not proven) that a headlight with a yellowish tint is more noticeable to car drivers. Bright white tends to get washed out with all the cars nowadays that have their sidelights permanently on.
Dave,
in order to avoid further confusion please may I point out that the cool white LED you mention is actually 6000k, it's the warm white LED that's 3000k and as you note probably the more appropriate looking LED for our old nails.
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?_pos=3&_sid=a1490a3e3&_ss=r)
Opp's, yes you are correct there Skoti, I read and quoted from the notes I was making at the time I was placing the order for a complete set of LED's. I was comparing the various headlight colours as I was discussing my options on the telephone and have written cool white next to 6000k! Sorry, my schoolboy error. I have the 3000k warm white LED. Hopefully the morons on the roads will see me with a yellow(ish) light if the data is to be believed.
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I have the 3000k warm white LED. Hopefully the morons on the roads will see me with a yellow(ish) light if the data is to be believed.
Interesting, I'm sure there was a time in France when everyone there had to have yellow headlights, I don't know if EU law up ended all that or they had new ideas about it?
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I have the 3000k warm white LED. Hopefully the morons on the roads will see me with a yellow(ish) light if the data is to be believed.
Interesting, I'm sure there was a time in France when everyone there had to have yellow headlights, I don't know if EU law up ended all that or they had new ideas about it?
Unfortunately the yellow lights, allthough streetlegal, are becoming more and more extinct, due to EU laws which (uniformity for carmakers). It's a pity. They were better noticed in bad weather conditions like fog and snow. Also there was hardly any blinding of oncomers.
As far as what's mentioned above (UK ruling) in the EU fitting a LED bulb in a standard or H4 reflector is not streetlegal. Leds only in reflectors for Leds, halogen H4 only in H4 reflectors.
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From Deltarider
'As far as what's mentioned above (UK ruling) in the EU fitting a LED bulb in a standard or H4 reflector is not streetlegal. Leds only in reflectors for Leds, halogen H4 only in H4 reflectors'.
Just to avoid confusion here for our EU forum members.
In Germany since 25/9/2020 fitting an LED bulb in a standard or H4 reflector is street legal.
Link in (English language) from German TUV (similar to UK MOT):-
https://www.tuvsud.com/en/industries/mobility-and-automotive/automotive-and-oem/automotive-testing-solutions/led-retrofit-headlamp-light-sources
' LEDs can be safely installed in headlamps on used vehicles, allowing these retrofitted vehicles to be registered on German roads'.
Normally legislation passed in Germany is eventually adopted by other EU member states and surrounding countries.
Sorry to be a bit of an anorak on this subject, but as a former MOT tester I still have a keen interest.
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I'll ask the German forum. Ruling in Germany is very strict. Whenever you replace a part on your bike by a non OEM product like tyres, silencers, etc., the TÃœV (MOT) demands a document which states that that particular product 'eingetragen' is. It often leads to frustration. I'm glad I live in the wild west.
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When we ran out Jeeps a WJ &. WK1 both were retro fitted with LED headlamp bulbs both passed the MOT tests at two different test centres. I later chatted with one of the testers about the issue, he said as long as they were white with a clear dip cut off it was not an issue. The Jeeps use an unusual style of bulb so finding good ones was difficult. I eventually found a pair of fan cooled units named oddly "Hogfather" they were much longer on the bulb body - luckily plenty of room on the WJ - they were in the Jeep when it was sold being over 3 years old.
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Personally speaking I don't give a stuff if LED's are legal or not in our reflectors, I'm fitting one!
Considering our police force are unable/unwilling to prosecute uninsured drivers, Drink/Drug related driving, vehicles driving around with no MOT and Tax and motorists driving whilst banned or having no licence at all whilst Mr Khan is trying to force us off the road with nanny state regulations I don't think the fitting of an LED that may or may not be legal is going to be an issue for me. If it is illegal come MOT time I will temporarily change the bulb ;D
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Personally I wouldn't fit anything that could possibly lead to annoyance like blinded oncomers. I was raised with the proverb: what you do not want done to you, do not do to others.
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When we took our Sl for it's Mot a couple of years ago the tester at the MB dealership failed it on the number plates digit spacing.
The combination of 4 letters & one number were not mis-spaced to spell a name the plates were marked with the the plate manufacturer details plus the relevant BS code or whatever was the law 20 years ago when we bought the plates. It had passed it's Mot at the same MB dealer as it was since 2004.
Despite my protestations the tester would not re-consider the fail. IMHO he was applying the spacing rules for a modern 7 digit registration marks to a 5 digit plate incorrectly. I purchased a replacement set of plates online the - the only slight difference I could see was the gap between the first letter and the next number was marginally closer about 1/4" on the new plate. I was not charged for the re-test.
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Personally I wouldn't fit anything that could possibly lead to annoyance like blinded oncomers. I was raised with the proverb: what you do not want done to you, do not do to others.
A rather moral stance for inclusion in technical topic, making the assumption that there's fault present in the LED installation, which may or may not be true.
IF the beam pattern complies with existing legislation, and testing by reflectance chart geometry, then why would it offer a compromised outcome ?
Most std don't appear to list the light scource as technical prerequisite, but the output alignment in general.
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There is a difference between car and bike cutoff, bikes can go straight up and down cars must go to kerb
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Personally I wouldn't fit anything that could possibly lead to annoyance like blinded oncomers. I was raised with the proverb: what you do not want done to you, do not do to others.
I agree with your comments, nowt wrong with putting a moral stance in amongst the technical details.
A lot of current modern car LED lighting leaves a lot to be desired be it overly bright dip beams to side indicators that are hard to see in good daylight as some are very narrow. Might be legal but can still cause annoyance.
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A shame such a moral stance wasn't taken by the complete tosser who drove into the back of our car on Thursday whilst my wife was undertaking a home visit as a NHS Midwife. When she came out the rear wing, wheelarch, sill and bumper had been stoved in. The person who did this had no morals whatsoever and just left the scene. The result is if we claim on our insurance it is us who will pay the higher premiums, not the scumbag who caused the damage and who obviously has no insurance, licence, MOT or whatever.
I have lived by strict morals all my life however when those around me refuse to do so and considering this is London where illegal driving appears to be the norm these days with no punshiment whatsoever I'll do exactly what I want to when it comes to something trivial such as fitting an LED bulb if I consider what I am doing is a matter for my own personal safety.
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To be sure, I'll reread forsaid test which was published in a motormagazine edited by the very trustworthy ANWB (our AA), but I'm pretty sure it said: LED? OK, but in a reflector designed for LED. H4 halogen? OK, but in a reflector designed for H4. EU legislation it explained.
There's a lot in the market right now. I tend to have confident in products by Osram and Philips, but I can wait. In traffic I favor uniformity and I will fit nothing that could be at the expense of fellow motorists.
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That's dreadful Dave now't worse that Hit & Run drivers - they don't seem to bother even if they hit a pedestrian.
Just a lack of integrity and values that seems so prevalent today.
The apparent lack of everyday Roads Polcing is the start of something they will live to regret.
As a probationer you learnt to engage with the local population through stopping motor vehicles and talking to young drivers well meeting local criminals in the process.
My first arrest for a garage burglary was when I stopped a local lad in Clowne near chesterfield for driving through a short pedestrian tunnel.
I noticed that the wheels on his old Austin 1100 looked almost brand new, I was aware of a theft of wheels from a private garage. Duly arrested, invertigated, home searched and charged with Burglary - as my old Sergeant used to say most Burglars don't walk to a commit crime.
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Here the answer from Germany.
Osram und Philips bieten zugelassene LED H7 aber auch H4 an. Du darfts sie aber nur nachrüsten wenn sie für das Fahrzeug auch geprüft und zugelassen sind.
Für die Hondas wird das wohl nicht der Fall sein.
So, you can only fit them, if they've been tested and admitted for your specific vehicle. That's also what the article said.
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In the UK it appears we can now use LED replacements for H4 lamps as per below:
The MOT rules have been clarified from 06.02.23 to allow the use of LED conversions that pass the beam pattern tests for headlights for Class 3, 4, 5 and 7 vehicles (car, private bus and light commercial vehicle) first used before 1 April 1986 and all class 1 and 2 motorcycles of any age.
That's good enough for me :)
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Ofcourse, but I, on the European continent, am not prepared to spend € 80,- on a bulb, unless I am absolutely sure it's an overall improvement. Until then I will remain satisfied with my 60/55W H4 in the H4 reflector, the bike came with. Saves me the job to create enough room for the ventilator well known brands have. Personally I don't need anything brighter as already now reflecting road signs irritate me.
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How much - 80 Euros for a bulb!
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Ofcourse, but I, on the European continent, am not prepared to spend € 80,- on a bulb, unless I am absolutely sure it's an overall improvement. Until then I will remain satisfied with my 60/55W H4 in the H4 reflector, the bike came with. Saves me the job to create enough room for the ventilator well known brands have. Personally I don't need anything brighter as already now reflecting road signs irritate me.
Here's a cheaper one that will fit your reflector, and it's CE certified for our EU forum members:-
https://www.tecnoglobe.be/tecnoglobe/en/motorcycle-led/10522-extra-compact-motorcycle-led-bulb.html (https://www.tecnoglobe.be/tecnoglobe/en/motorcycle-led/10522-extra-compact-motorcycle-led-bulb.html)
Motorbikes TecnoGlobe's LED bulbs are CE certified and use CSP Led technology to provide 300% better lighting quality than conventional bulb.
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I've sent you a PM about LED bulb.