Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Dolomite_ on June 03, 2024, 02:57:05 PM
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Im rebuilding the transmission and cant quite figure out who the 25mm lock washer goes on. Its part 90462-323-000 and seen here on yamiya https://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=179_273_206_210&products_id=2860.
Is it meant to sit flush with the thrust washer? The outward splines wont fit underneath the splines on the thrust washer. I just want to double check that it seems correct before I put it all together.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMnCASyWVw7bnjDgxY-_LUKsfmmWw17y9Xg-0KBc6mzcRQQrJo5BOtyVFSafCvFsSDfRhFWcPQTJw_TC2ahEVQkazA2oNGF5g9eXdba4jFPTE115hdMw_g7TIpaQFYMVlxMxARw8X1SU0Jk-QgNnDFEMyC3_9ZUOyhvcPHhkqI-ekYe5tB3rv3rbcaN_0ZgpZ6qtFBP12bdQdPl5LeVBAbDuxyyb0KOybKi3s3lmOEuNACZ00JAOi0xa_QNOvm4LjzWBr6hpSSHvWAn99t2gox4tmFa-cbeVvC0jdn7l-c6MgY3Z-tLSEmyYi8kgYnAb5jhBNXexVuabUJceJ6H0qxWj6lb8jD4kPgUizv_Cknf2Ekh3j7OWmS0rEsGG33GJ71zOcI8aT_NU5WM7_EUZ2jSpNQuVvqy_pOTZsafpsjIFsrZ0HNkoVp5eBCd-D7S-D4r_Jq5epeZ1DqplhdirQYd6XyKgm2T4DdH6rcAzcDXJnZ427G26hiYia4IcOPGfKkV_vu3Us2ZLbnieNx7_IxSbdBGR6SBg-qJdmIVvIpKFFjWTfs3KVRTR3tvSSACURUkHcDNQtSVoBl9hZl8brI-pxVvV-LKhN3N6yPP_Sn0oxbcGWsqUCVKReMd4SMZPY8GS9we4dykJPg0Otne7W61MklpzxXM8Q-SljWB2odGqGEnhVHrKSkaPv2dovXiySnQ8TZCzuF7jbOJHs-1Lk8wmecwN3VmIviGbvAVhZXFGdvJi_yA1i9XdIjUzXaoO6fqZhpWvRjBa8nUtMXfIvLhRs1I02PzKHWrk8zNYdJ0x4FiD238Cb0MayQMTyef1XhdvOB0Gw65VC0pH9f_SM64kJunQ8puv59YO-geqt4F3VzhESVlPDhAi-30LSOcstUs10rT9qzQihqsaDcUEnEVsOXJ8-RmHmca9szfNKjNoMkeU13IqmQaW9PJkcYjwwVgI9qHYre-WdwXWyg7Vd8vk6Z7eEEu=w963-h1279-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNLiy5XJg3NmPbuXNgGmNVbGrREZHtqKvBxb3u4-YpCeWa4nCvxgNDIrNpU_bAYRJx7ZYGBkm_BPQtpq67zTnSJJEKgWOK07vTcw5zWITUKgO9sSvEt5F-6OS9HHSWaxBC5wikwpHRSHTe9uz2Ib52bhDXOKs2Q6UpCPrHeGRxW-Ua79-CCltrN2LVEHoKBTzkEOWR6apqJ9VZeu-XWKS-_bUqEEZsdVtBxZhRTyKowjfvqafIi2x7UZ2g6xvSX2HXrWV82rUzUTqJ3gW4EFMopDT1O5qjlLk3J7OSnDRwMlwDVkjO1rig_nm6O3891Htj0gxTL-5Lu1WjRsNSh7zp3gj34DLcDe4uzZ8AUem4TRkGbbscr1xLqNISDaV025ZJJ3mHM0twjtj0rTIL3blcm2LHKye5m2XSuy_pXrd6j02kV9fUw4B3rB-FyAQ5kXqrKjydqFeNO0oOFJEaCgRX4NVNcsdFyrdKs68ekvKJ_UKyb5oO4HqY3wNSNFQ6VC3OBI5Pk31AbwBk_vUqeyeD5KfcrWWXlkIMEHVGBBE1-7lSKarBH8HOqiAOPOHFlf5PIRFPKwSCkIdq1tsvWCYQ3IskVT-xia8rCzuox5xXg4xqw-A3IeO6J6hG1LFfTM4Dpl_Of8D319ia7eOigrU3MmVAh2k9xmYV2auKvVXeU0yl_KclTVYF3lvGNGLp1-tEFYhwB1IKB5dc8sFbjI9i5fwYxJN_NXKKSLoPEiWjQZ9oJh0q16orDDtwf8LSFlYP4LtNUo3vZ09NIf4EZUkG2Q5vO7HoPkpNHmZjAyLdI9Uv_z4gJYhfnX1ee2OUWHC1emWP8ZXMhl2_Xlirqsj_xSvprvoBkf2rwNUa-oblW0RbqLrrFNb5W-3GMEsR-gXy-gV0vDZK5Y_KJcYWOrUBBg8_jfHTcjk23O9M711ROX7IF5lTgWa6QnhtJdDlm3_Q12n5qMUk82c3MCBVo8PCMEVbQj4wk=w963-h1279-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
I didn't do the rule of you never have enough pictures...
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It was more than two years ago now but I do remember trying to fit mine and it just did not want to fit flat so as to speak.
IIRC I took it off and put it back on again and it suddenly decided to fit after at least 6 or 8 attempts that seemed identical.
I might still have my old disassembly photos in my archive - I will take a look and post it if I find it.
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Unless it is meant to fit with the bent splines facing away. Like this:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOa4xpeMX-ri6Z7kCLGn5iFK8wiVIzm2gU1-fgQ2WZmduOWuqo0aWIKeeKEqkRoZ3yrPmZ7-StpZal69t8Y7_39m4msKqr4HdDOwIu7-3n9gtfTj9LEP_APAMA8EMelWEC7C66yqI_cYq3Egn1kvgQOgfab0PquJeP30OzbDm7yEP_qzGIVeaTX24Q7UUj2Tki_33sE_HSOQnG02BB-P81APelex8tQkY-Cuf17iCTIsYXZ29RysGHcvg_0mT9OVA_JbKl8cG230SAckNO_yxIuHOUtiJyKQUbciNtJCE36dE4R319bUdnbRL07GkVJs0OnHuwGzUGXKoOynWz0YPHFAnfRE_9DXW27mJzDGab5LsKIbOWzu1Rt5QflVF-cx--93F6ckRW-0FR2Kwkbg1ex0SpIR6z0F13ixssHoUGkba5omDzSlQwtvcxFtIIsvzktl8i6F3rrpEhKZ0VqvRnnhxSrhT0vL3cjWnwp9UnJ9seAbwpOxW1W5BFSLCwIj5ZgDjbfGi17WUHtaqXXv1SbTP-edF0XpQ0mt7tqLdNo8vRzygRGduIfNloGqG8swsWpNuuCcJXnZoZ59-qxCThS1gDguUX9bRKG8PbMM_ST0MhDlSuXuAlTon5RX7qPhs4evnx-Cdhho001eXtkclbLQBa8-Xou-shvQY0OrXBlcYpXddgOx1JLa7XzAv5bTu7Y1Wis5OsFlTBo-Er6zgmldmjEk56I1tW2XiHUspMm2FuzzgNoiC5-Hx6WqUMVOMKZmmG397nydBceodtKwhOKt-zGz7wr4fTksHps4uGu74hhEggCzPBQMlrlUDhlddM1gF8PYYtKlC-FAZfQ3ZSV94CNDfTfIxnilu0vOIX0JIr3HUdM6G-8B15fvIBRRJlAH7XTXKB2cNITq_bEBmpgR0uUFIDS59fwq0B_VaHsa85z249QRp45Xc2PPNYsFHejd1Oii5nwzykgVTG0EabiD1phSeTN=w963-h1279-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
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I'm pretty sure mine fitted with the bent bits opposite to your photo so they located into the gear.
When you have the two parts in your hand so they fit in place together that's how they sit against the gear.
I could be wrong it was closer to 3 years ago but I remember having your problem. Not sure if they become distorted so you have to fit them in the same position they were in before you took it apart.
Looking at my downloaded parts book its with the tangs in against the gear with the flat part in the middle as you would expect.
I uploaded this photo when I was having your issue so it might be in my 400 project I will take a look.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139818621_a24b249c45_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kV3WoH)parts 250 & 249 (https://flic.kr/p/2kV3WoH) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Hmm, so the washer washer with the bent splines then the flash washer?
In the parts list it shows as the flat washer in between the gear and washer with the bent splines. There is no way the bent splines fit under the flash washer even trying to fit them together not on the shaft doesn't work.
Edit, reading through my haynes manual again, it does mention that the splines go inwards into the washer but I don't see how it fits. I think the diagram is also wrong. Its not showing the correct washers or gears.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/geanqsh7vy2m8ewyqncnl/400-4%20Part%20List%201975%20searcheable.pdf?rlkey=hqb1np807bko695nym500d9zo&e=7&dl=0
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The flat washer sits in the middle between the gear and the tanged one, I feel certain as per the parts book with the tangs towards the gear.
Where those grooves are on the shaft enables you to rotate the flat washer until you find the right position for the tanged part to engage into the correct position.
It's almost as if there is a master position between the flat washer and the tanged one that has to "fit" so it fits up to the gear correctly.
Hopefully someone else can step in here to assist you.
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This is the only way they sit flush as far as a I can tell.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNT--5uFni_cf-sE7hXGMr_4iX3J6dYhMWXgS6orzbct0Go81z2sMyZ0dWo6dqygdq00LKXVaCdqg2T2H8C0u1ir2P86rov3K8RR6owsupvyi9OZ0JBhpwK5u2XQaEURv18ojqMTfzap_1ftqRLhQcj2s0G95bAQ91LCqNRz90VKCCjXpzuwsvWjhcsLNIRa-yp-1dwhMkFGvPkpI4VIqqANbNvpXYcSakwFIvVDyGhcGVXbq16Hfsb572FJeyztEYXJvcvFqjBqyWYdUyn-vHHEofy6W4R6bTvhtRbcJMgVooadzMEgdiKiZDwF91lXoktHsSQLizfmtqknv5whGYXUC-lOeF0qt480btmbb1tHnMSZhPEwTalyfcbjhTd5A5fVd_-Nka524P3GMhUnBu7iJcbtKi9HVQHPaFF2exW2s4p8pQRHncQ8h4FkrjT7WVAtqT9ZQarMWzkDmUmKjfP4qk3qjo5ZKk6rX1kcjwXRhGKhTpw2wsITZm6xhHekx20B_3uZvU2SJwd97UNdXwxVFs2SpsTLtFu6Hr6wO6TNbPUoHkBaLTpfQSRjmkdQ0adzWxzGGVICYXPeUnEZpsouPg9-HSF7a5gdV8CUQ2ZZmimqW_INY5IQ-oqbrk4gBxzjDZ-Hh9INQ_69mr_6JFgBjiUBWPQMIBLfaQeEgBza0IdZki5mtdt5csUjKMyH-klQDDRUKcNfcYKb0NMxdjKpd2kxUnBQfUwdoMBX7AkomVdtt_IIP4lTzBXaVNbISYjgg42m3Pqs5nf9n4jxaabw7-Ztb8vBcb2Ep6pgXyyCS9cgUTEoZRfzoTen24NqSdqBfP_o-1KvHI7H0kR-BPkq9fv922PalUaYya289wluP5ryk9hx_691slwP1aJZ11y-d3EFZRmgCRh9sbAU-ZFW3krhOJFTL1eN712XFft9anijGO8wTaXqX2HHVEYTne3xDS_0lmJwgJ9uKOo3zA6kTcaG-Xx=w963-h1279-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
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That might be right but it contradicts the photo in the parts book so I would wait for someone else to chip in.
I've checked my 400 project but not shown. I will take a look at more of my original 400 photos.
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The haynes manual shows this
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNcDLwabMjOy7ofn49NmuNIYWJKaZ05Iy-T8Et-WDUuQTnfabhBTdGZM7BDcW89yqxHOCw5KgnAE13y35KwTLP4ERzdYlttyJUR80qtTC3x20nnsPzTe46JhA4pUb2CmL9n8wIssbuYCkNIZI4FuGyA3ePnJ04R8YYA0Yaee_rldp5atLaTUBbirar3CXIKJeLyHq-vrxDoj4uqkBYoVTIWJNgAcGyxExtq4hiBNmkE18HVMD7MyPpaC8roNGyuyklgGh80oZnTgk5LzbhGpDrzWvUHbx29qBl_9c96SP5adV7DU7_vtdrlZ1VUyOgbgcDK5LyuNYQoT8fCfFX6hG8XHr4d7lciw2PzyQ3xTH1UWLGzjQsRbxI-8LFoG9_XrYeYAU-2NTBXMQYfyY8TK-wLHzMqUbXa0EbB_zGkXFdAGL_fCEFsWMjUZyQoc_P9qZCench_9EnpSwFeSn50YibIx50-jhb3f_oetmc5iUyNqLj1829jaqqUDbZNq3_QH_I3GCLZmX39YzdRMudTvWws16etXRDgYCWgWGcCQI9gCmCafkQDSxfjNN8W2URZLUvdETwNSnKmZ5eMuMjM6idq68bNC_F2HZyHteU_YTO9HG0j_2h9UoqIk_AvSdRPePnJD1Mwdd8KPntyGdXGEoUaEChYDhHSzjMj7ElZ1X_S57-e6kb91YLlMWLofBXfgEjLfKxkRJKQDp18MbIp86KcoiQpc1Ru05spjKzc9WYtRYDT3WbTBjq97YqA3vlXlaTNilqUrdwJ-j_MAyBDkXBJS1hZ-vrKa0nNrnnFpKEMRMH7g06iOfVDKJ6TbooDyHl0nvjP29G16byZb5_jDNHUPZNIxyVlUW94bjLI15gbSgwEe-DHBtjMRlz0IxoT3RNmeesfa3ASxOGCq2Oue8XnNib9EqRBFD5Uw0ZqSQXYuTxxIEcFJlfbsINqxJ1DsHvJedP6wu6vOhiixQgfkXrnr4KlKqmH=w963-h1279-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
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Yes that's like the parts book and as I remember it but initially it just did not want to sit right but after a lot of rotating it at the slotted section it eventually fitted!
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Got it! The haynes manual parts diagram is wrong. It must be the 350f. Its showing the wrong gears. Looking at the parts list its 33t then 30t, the haynes manual shows 30t first that's why it wouldn't fit. Sorted!
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So what way round did it fit in the end?
Did you have the wrong sized gear on the shaft?
My Haynes manual does not show that photo?
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The counter shaft in my haynes manual and the parts list https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/geanqsh7vy2m8ewyqncnl/400-4%20Part%20List%201975%20searcheable.pdf?rlkey=hqb1np807bko695nym500d9zo&e=7&dl=0 seem to be slightly different. The haynes manual shows part 250 being a circlip and not the washer.
It was the wrong gear, the haynes manual had a wider gear, putting the one listed in the parts list was a little thinner and allowed the washer to rotate into the grove and then washer with the bent splines slots in. Weird.
The haynes manual I'm using is CB400 and Cb550 fours.
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Easily done - when I dismantled my 400 as a complete novice I used a large Cable Tie to hold stuff in order as well as taking plenty of photos. I stored each shaft & gear in large individual Tupperware type containers or Zip Lock Bags squirted with oil to prevent rusting during storage.
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Yeah, each shaft and what was on it was stored in separate containers. The order in the haynes manual just threw me.
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I mainly used the parts manual.
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Thats always been my problem with Haynes, not too many mistakes but the ones there are are glaringly anoying ones
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I'm more familiar with the Haynes Car Manuals back in the 1980's they were much more detailed about how to remove dashboard trims and the like. Newer manuals seem poor on detail with fewer good photos. A local freelance engineering photographer named John Colley did a lot of their photos but when they started cost cutting he became a casualty.