Honda-SOHC

SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: Primadonna on July 10, 2024, 07:32:34 PM

Title: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on July 10, 2024, 07:32:34 PM
Hey guys!

I've chased in the forum about CB 500 Four Tank Painting, but couldn't find anything about the white stripes.

I'm the happy owner of this wonderful piece of art from 1972.
I've already paid someone to paint the gas tank, it won't be like the original paint style, combining yellow and blue to make the jade green, but it will be close to it.

My problem atm: the WHITE STRIPES of the tank.

I'm putting together an illustrator file as reference for the guy that will paint the gas tanks. And after chasing online for the specs of the THICKNESS of the white stripes, so far I haven't found anything.

I could "guess" and it could be made by "eye", but I'm looking for "near perfection" results here.

Do you guys have any reference about the thickness of the stripes by any chance?
It would help me loads.

Thanks in advance!
Flavio
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Bryanj on July 11, 2024, 12:24:15 AM
They were not painted but decals laquered over, Piki on here does them i think
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 01, 2024, 01:44:20 AM
They were not painted but decals laquered over, Piki on here does them i think

THanks Bryanj, I'm aware of that.
But painting will have a more long-lasting result.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 01, 2024, 01:46:27 AM
I'm looking for both the "thickness" of each line. And the best colour reference (a pantone ref. already helps), in order to choose the closest to a Jade Green for the Honda 500 Four 1971.

Every little help is much appreciated.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 01, 2024, 08:49:38 AM
They were not painted but decals laquered over, Piki on here does them i think

THanks Bryanj, I'm aware of that.
But painting will have a more long-lasting result.
How long do you want them to last? 😁😁😁😁 The original lacquered over decal stripes have lasted over 50 years and still going strong on a lot of tanks.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2024, 06:13:40 PM
My lines were painted on by the place that sprayed my tank.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 01, 2024, 06:18:43 PM
My lines were painted on by the place that sprayed my tank.
Yes, all ours have been painted as well Ted.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 01, 2024, 07:12:55 PM
My lines were painted on by the place that sprayed my tank.

Thanks Ted!

Do you know by any chance the thickness of each line in the tank?
I just need this information, and a reference for the jet Jade Green Colour in order to finish this part of my restoration.

Thanks,
Flavio
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Bryanj on October 01, 2024, 08:02:18 PM
There is no standard reference for the green colour, best you can hope for is that somebody has already scanned a nos part, plus if its a mettalic its a 3 pack
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2024, 08:02:55 PM
Check my photo on my project build, if it looks like what you are trying to achieve I'll post some measurements.

Mine is a black tank with white lines.


Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 01, 2024, 08:18:22 PM
Check my photo on my project build, if it looks like what you are trying to achieve I'll post some measurements.

Mine is a black tank with white lines.

Wow! That is a SERIOUS restoration and amazingly documented. Congrats!

I just didn't fin a picture of the tank painting :(
Is it there somewhere?

(I searched both links on your signature for the 500)
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2024, 08:48:14 PM
The photo of my finished 500 K1 is there.
If you are after a tank close up I'll do one tomorrow.

Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 01, 2024, 08:56:50 PM
The photo of my finished 500 K1 is there.
If you are after a tank close up I'll do one tomorrow.

Thanks Ted. I'll search again.
All I need is the thickness in mm of each stripe, so I can finish the painting.
And in case you know a source where I can dig for the reference color for the Jet Green Jade tank, that would help too.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2024, 09:05:40 PM
Ash is pretty knowledgeable about paint. I'll pop a tank photo & some  measurements up tomorrow.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 01, 2024, 09:07:39 PM
Ash is pretty knowledgeable about paint. I'll pop a tan photo & some  measurements up tomorrow.

Thanks a million Ted!
That would be amazing.

Oh, and in case you could ask him for the reference colour (pantone, etc) of the Jet Green Jade, that would be all I need.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2024, 10:04:24 PM
Ash is AshimotoKO on here.

Page 57. https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,28541.840.html
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 02, 2024, 10:15:05 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54038472386_2e0c48f6f8_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qkciaL)500 tank (https://flic.kr/p/2qkciaL) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr



Lines are 3 mm & 2 mm thick - can't say it's like the original for concourse purposes others here might chip in with whats wrong.

I left it to the painter, I'm happy with how it looks, only person I need to please is me. Hope it helps.
I know nothing about the various Honda Colours - I asked for a nice looking high gloss black.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 02, 2024, 11:29:56 PM
Flavio the original poster PM'd me but I can't really help him with a match for Candy Jade (Jet) green. Menno did my 500K0 ages ago and it was a bluish metallic basecoat with a green candy top coat + clear coat over that. Not an easy colour to paint I would reckon.

I dare say a paint factors that has a spectrophotometer could scan a NOS part and get a metallic paint close (ish) match but he's in Italy and so can't point him to anyone. 
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 04, 2024, 05:07:46 PM
Hey guys!

Thank you both so much for your help!

If I don't find another reference for the lines, I'll do them 3 and 2 mm.
@Ash, thanks for the reference. It surely would be complicated. I'll try to find a pantone reference that is closest to the original, as it would be risky to paint like the original.

Cheers,
Flavio
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 04, 2024, 05:23:59 PM
This is my tank befor painting I believe it was the original paintwork - re-painted due to a bit of a dent in the tank plus a side panel needed replacing. The first 500 I sat on was black & I liked the colour.

.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52348612433_4c8aefb027_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nKSjFk)Ted's CB500 project bike (https://flic.kr/p/2nKSjFk) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr

This was a bike at a show probably Stafford..(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52434459645_7a470a69ce_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nTsj4F)PXL_20221016_105939722 (https://flic.kr/p/2nTsj4F) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Bryanj on October 04, 2024, 06:42:03 PM
You keep asking for a pantone reference, never heard of that so dont know what you mean but i can tell you that none of the honda colours have industry standard codes.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 04, 2024, 11:03:50 PM
You keep asking for a pantone reference, never heard of that so dont know what you mean but i can tell you that none of the honda colours have industry standard codes.

I think Pantone lists a lot of metallics Bryan. A metallic is never going to 'pop' like candy paint but I have had a couple of Honda candy paints scanned and matched to car metallic colours (for other people, not used myself) and they have come out pretty good.

https://colorconfidence.com/products/pantone-metallics-coated-replacement-pages?variant=32173943062598&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpP63BhDYARIsAOQkATYzyoHHeidAg-ns55dBMR36-0ngdAGowDRJs2RIxQVbJ8bBQXOwbWQaAswmEALw_wcB

https://www.dcpaintsolutions.com/pantone-metallics
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 05, 2024, 11:40:21 PM
You keep asking for a pantone reference, never heard of that so dont know what you mean but i can tell you that none of the honda colours have industry standard codes.

I think Pantone lists a lot of metallics Bryan. A metallic is never going to 'pop' like candy paint but I have had a couple of Honda candy paints scanned and matched to car metallic colours (for other people, not used myself) and they have come out pretty good.

https://colorconfidence.com/products/pantone-metallics-coated-replacement-pages?variant=32173943062598&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpP63BhDYARIsAOQkATYzyoHHeidAg-ns55dBMR36-0ngdAGowDRJs2RIxQVbJ8bBQXOwbWQaAswmEALw_wcB

https://www.dcpaintsolutions.com/pantone-metallics

Hey @Bryan!

Yeah, i know. I was asking for a pantone reference as it's a complete catalog of colour for printing.
But it's just as a last resource, if anyone would have that.

I'm aware the ideal would be a colour reference that is used for paints. But I have no idea of which..
There are two ways, one is the original painting that uses the yellow gold from the yellow 500 four + A tone of blue.

I need a green paint colour reference that would be the closest to the original, and the kind of finish of the black (satin, matte, gloss etc).
Then I can chase someone in my country that does that kind of paintings/finishings.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 05, 2024, 11:48:06 PM
You keep asking for a pantone reference, never heard of that so dont know what you mean but i can tell you that none of the honda colours have industry standard codes.

I think Pantone lists a lot of metallics Bryan. A metallic is never going to 'pop' like candy paint but I have had a couple of Honda candy paints scanned and matched to car metallic colours (for other people, not used myself) and they have come out pretty good.

https://colorconfidence.com/products/pantone-metallics-coated-replacement-pages?variant=32173943062598&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpP63BhDYARIsAOQkATYzyoHHeidAg-ns55dBMR36-0ngdAGowDRJs2RIxQVbJ8bBQXOwbWQaAswmEALw_wcB

https://www.dcpaintsolutions.com/pantone-metallics

Hey @Bryan!

Yeah, i know. I was asking for a pantone reference as it's a complete catalog of colour for printing.
But it's just as a last resource, if anyone would have that.

I'm aware the ideal would be a colour reference that is used for paints. But I have no idea of which..
There are two ways, one is the original painting that uses the yellow gold from the yellow 500 four + A tone of blue.

I need a green paint colour reference that would be the closest to the original, and the kind of finish of the black (satin, matte, gloss etc).
Then I can chase someone in my country that does that kind of paintings/finishings.

Hey Ash!

Good point on the Pantone metallics. It could work too, I didn't think of that before.
But a normal Pantone Green colour reference would already work if the shade is the match for the original, then I can only order the metallic finish.
Anyway, worst case scenario I could save a digital image from the original Honda photos from the 70's, and take it to a paint business and they can find a match.

But it would help if anyone in the forum would have that reference.
I'll chase more in the forum.

Thanks for your help so far! If I find a good match, after I paint it I'll post the photo here and leave the Green Ref code.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 06, 2024, 12:10:33 AM
What I have found today is this "explainer" of the process, but it doesn't give much info (like, the base coat "blue" should be wet when applying the yellow/gold from the other model, but in this video he uses another green colour over a metallic light blue, then the result is "close", but still it seems a little on the bright side.

I'm leaving below for any Forum member that could use this reference to help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuIXVnUvSs8&t=98s

"A description of the paint process and steps for Honda Candy Jade Green using VMR Paints spray gun products.
This is not a paint spraying tutorial.
The Honda Motorcycle paint code for Candy Jade Green is simply "KB".
1975 Honda CB550 Candy Jade Green consists of Candy Gold (Yellow) Midcoat HC-16-600  and Mariana Blue Metallic Basecoat HM-16-504.
Earlier year Honda  Motorcycles used a different formula for Candy Jade Green (sometimes referred to as Jet Green) consisting of Candy Jade Green Midcoat HC-16-904 and Candy Silver Basecoat UC-16-100.
*This video is not sponsored or endorsed by VMR Paints."

Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Primadonna on October 06, 2024, 12:19:50 AM
But the best pics I found that are the closest to the Jet Green are the below:

(https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=27151.0;attach=71031;image)

(http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133516.0;fs=84035;attach=247965;image)
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 06, 2024, 11:04:18 AM
It might be an optical illusion - that side panel badge looks a tad on the hight side?
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 06, 2024, 12:08:45 PM
Pretty sure I know that K2 bike .. my mate still has a small amount of the paint it was painted with in his shed .. paint was from
RS Bikepaint.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 07, 2024, 01:18:28 PM
You do Ash. The picture posted by Primadonna is the k2 from your neck of the woods. The picture is from my garage!!!!! Not sure how he got hold of that?
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 07, 2024, 02:15:13 PM
You do Ash. The picture posted by Primadonna is the k2 from your neck of the woods. The picture is from my garage!!!!! Not sure how he got hold of that?

You did a post way back with that pic on !


https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,28504.msg267461.html#msg267461
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 07, 2024, 08:16:08 PM
I don’t recall doing so, but I guess I must have!
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 07, 2024, 11:07:14 PM
I don’t recall doing so, but I guess I must have!

https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,28504.msg267461.html#msg267461
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 08, 2024, 11:23:28 AM
Aye,  it the shot used in his post is not in that group. Still, never mind.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 08, 2024, 01:45:24 PM
Aye,  it the shot used in his post is not in that group. Still, never mind.

https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,27151.msg250971.html#msg250971
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 09, 2024, 11:08:51 AM
Good spot, Ash. Wow, three years have passed quickly!
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 09, 2024, 12:18:29 PM
Good spot, Ash. Wow, three years have passed quickly!

Yea took a bit of trawling  bit anoraky i know on my part  :-[ ..... PLUS we still haven't designed our electronic ignition yet. Suppose you have been sailing the seven seas though in the meantime.

 I am going to cadge the remains of that RS Candy Jade Green paint off Jim sometime  and do a couple of spray out cards with it to see if anyone locally can match it. Fookin' mega expensive from RS.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 09, 2024, 05:25:23 PM
Yes,a match for the green would be good. It’s a lovely colour in my opinion. And yes, RS certainly know how to charge!!

Had a go at firing the 550 this morning. It was stumbling and misfiring, refusing to tickover and only responding with choke full on. Loosening the float bowl drain screws revealed lots of black particles, so I suspect blocked pilot jets. Carbs off again and tank flush on the cards. Must invest in a line filter.


On ignition, I’m going to solder up a couple of Velleman Kits this winter and go from there. I’m sure there will be some more contemporary transistors on the market than those supplied with the kit though.

Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Robert W on October 09, 2024, 07:56:57 PM
Lots of black particles may be rubber from alcohol in the petrol. Dumbest government mandate.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 09, 2024, 10:28:10 PM
Not in this case, Rob. The particles are very ‘crispy’.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 09, 2024, 10:29:36 PM
Or maybe not? How does the alcohol manifest?
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 09, 2024, 10:40:02 PM
I would have thought Ethanol, not Alcohol 🤔🤔🤔
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 09, 2024, 10:48:35 PM
Indeed
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 09, 2024, 10:49:28 PM
Anyways, it’s shite from the tank….😁
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 09, 2024, 11:04:53 PM
Ethanol is aka Ethyl Alcohol in chemistry nomenclature.
They are the same thing just a compressed name.

Just don't try drinking Methanol aka Methyl Alcohol as can cause blindness as well as drunkenness.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 09, 2024, 11:31:53 PM

Just don't try drinking Methanol aka Methyl Alcohol as can cause blindness as well as drunkenness.

Always rumoured when I lived in Newcastle in the 1970's that the General Hospital had a ward full of people suffering from the effects of drinking Newcastle Brown Ale that supposedly contained a small amount of methanol. Labels from the bottles made a good fake tax disc though  ;D

Us drinking classes call ethanol grain alcohol.  ;D Why do you think Windy Miller from Camberwick Green was able to walk through the rotating sails of his windmill all of the time ... 'cos he was permanently p*ssed on grain alcohol and it made him fearless.

What fuel hose are you using ?  There's some really dodgy stuff out there that goes rock hard then disintegrates..... commonly sold at autojumbles etc and not particularly cheap so you would assume decent quality.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 09, 2024, 11:35:41 PM
It was poor fuel hose on my temporary petrol tank that caused my 500 carbs to block up. I ordered a small mower type translucent petrol tank off eBay that came with a tap, Brass T piece and some hose. Over a few days it became sticky on the outside and shed black rubbery type muck. New pipe rapidly deteriorated in a couple of days!
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 10, 2024, 08:16:08 AM
Thanks for the fuel pipe tips. I’m using this:

Any opinions on its quality and/or suitability gratefully received.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 10, 2024, 08:30:13 AM
Thanks for the fuel pipe tips. I’m using this:

Any opinions on its quality and/or suitability gratefully received.

I think that's the stuff that Julie recommends and is good quality.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: Sesman on October 10, 2024, 08:53:09 AM
Ta. I’m pretty sure the particles originate from the tank. Another tank flush and line filter today.
Title: Re: CB 500 Four Gast Tank Painting
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 10, 2024, 10:25:33 PM
I was behind a Porsche Taycan in the traffic on the way home and sussed out it is painted Mamba Green Metallic. Readily available and a possible option for Jade Green if you are not too fussy.


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