Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Laverda Dave on July 25, 2024, 06:21:54 PM
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I came to fit the seat to Ratty today, the final flourish as it were. The seat is a DSS reproduction of the original minus the Honda logo (that I have now applied using a stencil (thanks Ash :))). Of course in hindsight I should have tried the seat on the bike BEFORE applying the logo because I have now found the seat doesn't fit :(
First thing was the rubber cushion on the base being too thick, it should be 7mm, the one fitted was 15mm! I carefully cut this down. When I came to lower the seat the plunger was 10mm to far forward on the seat! I took this off whilst I checked everything else. When it came to lowering the seat the front of it was again 10mm to far forward. I checked the tank position and it is sitting hard up against the front rubber cushions on the frame. If the seat is pushed down to its correct location the nose of the seat is compressed upwards on the tank making it look it was made by a 5 year old! The seat is also so hard up against the rear of the tank it will rub the paint off within a few miles >:(
I tried to slot the holes in the seat hinge to enable me to push the seat back on the locating bolts but then found the bolt holding the pillion grab strap gets in the way, argghhhh.......
The piping on the seat at the front also resembles the crust of a Cornish pasty; it’s all over the place.
I contacted DSS earlier and was told ‘We have sold hundreds of these seats and never had a problem’ as though that’s an excuse for poor quality control! They have asked me to send photos of the issues with a full description which I have done and now awaiting a response. I have asked for another seat because this one is not fit for purpose.
Has anyone else had any issues with these seats from DSS? I noticed there are other suppliers but I guess they all come from the same source? Really annoying when DSS just send out parts without checking them first but let the customer act as their quality control department.
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That's a real bummer, is it the original petrol tank?
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Yes it is Ted and its not full of filler either. I think the foam was put onto the seat base incorrectly when it was made as everything is out by 10mm although that wouldn't explain the plunger fixing bolts being so far out so maybe the welded hinge and pluger fixings have also welded in the wrong place as well. Either way it is so far out the seat cannot be used as it is despite me trying to elongate the mounting holes in an attempt to fit it.
The alternative is to fit my genuine seat as a temporary fix from the other 400 that I am going to sell anyway just so I can get the bike on the road to give it a shakedown.
I rode over to Harpenden last night for Classics on the Green and had a hoot on my other 400, they sound great when you give them the beans ;D
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I realise that this may not be of any help to you, but, I purchased a DSS seat in August last year, and being reasonably close to Leiston I collected it. The carton was opened in front of me to check that there were no marks or tears. When fitting, yes, the rubber blocks were too thick so I swapped them for the ones from my old seat, and everything lined up perfectly, no prob. It's a pity that you have this problem, and you say that you tried drilling fresh holes, which means that it would probably negate any warranty. Whilst I understand your frustration, I doubt whether any car/motorcycle dealer removes new items from their packaging and checks them on a vehicle. I wish you well. Regards, Mike.
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I haven't made any holes or modification to the DSS seat Mike apart from the logo. The hinge bracket is not supplied with the seat, this was my bracket from the old seat I had powder coated, these were the holes I elongated. Likewise it was my existing seat plunger I modified to fit but being 10mm out I couldn't modify the fixings enough before running out of metal!
Yes, I should have checked it first, lesson learnt. I just get very pi@@@d off with the attitude of suppliers who think it's acceptable to send out sub standard parts and then question the customer as though it's their fault the part doesn't fit!
I have fitted two DSS repro seats on two other 400/4’s without any problems but this one definitely does not fit. When compared to an original seat the pattern seat vinyl is a lot thicker and has a very deep grain (a reason why the stencil paint bleeds). The pattern welding on the vinyl is also a lot deeper.
Let's see what DSS say now they have the photos.
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I was lucky as my 400 seat was in good condition - I assume it's not original as the base is a heavy type of plastic - the rear Logo looks if it was done when new
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Sorry Dave, I clean forgot about having to change the hinge and lock over. I blame the liquid that accompanied my evening meal! Yes, the seat is rather firm, last week I rode from North Suffolk to Sussex, stayed two nights. Total mileage just under 400, and yes, my arse ached. Combination of new seat, 48 year old bike, plus a 77 year old arse, but still managed a grin. Stay safe. Mike.
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That's a bummer Dave ..
I remember contacting Bob Dillinger near Stroud who made (still makes?) the seat covers for DS, as the ones he sold direct were a bit dearer than the DS price. He told me DS hammered him down on price so much that inevitably he had to cut corners.
Interested to know how the logo application went ... if it turned out a bit sub-standard don't worry as it's probably more to do with the deep grain pattern or stencil than your workmanship. I probably have another spare stencil if you end up getting a replacement from DS.
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I had a bit of a giggle there Mike. Good to hear the reproduction seat is as good as the original in terms of being plank like! I remember the original road tests at the time and all the journalists moaned about the seat being so hard!
I remember riding down to Poole to watch the speedway on my first 400 back in the 80’s (200 mile round trip). I walked like John Wayne when I got home!
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Hi Ash. The decal application went very well the second time, very, very minor bleed (only I can see it, wife says I'm too fussy ::). The stencil you sent was very tacky and stuck really well.
I'll see the response I get from DSS. Does Bob make the seats for the other suppliers (and does he make them to their spec, i.e. higher price/quality?). I don't know if the seat I bought from DS back in February when I bought £960 of spares from DSS if this seat was the new (cheaper) stock. As I mentioned before the previous two pattern seats from DSS fitted without any issues unlike this one.
It was a bummer because I thought all I had to do today was to fit the seat (30 minute task) and take Ratty for it's first ride, unfortunately I was still in the garage four hours later trying to fit a seat that didn't want to be fitted!
I'll get there in the end and I'll post some photos on my project thread when it's on the road. The carbs are back on now, they've been off four times during the past week!
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I bought one earlier this year for my 1975 CB400F and besides that it feels like you are riding on a block of wood it fit perfectly. I did not have to trim the bumper.
You may have received defective unit.
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I suppose this Yamiya seat is likely to be the best aftermarket seat around, if their 750K0 duck-tail seats are anything to go by.
[attachimg=1]
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Bob closed the business early last year, due to very poor health and sold off all his stock and equipment.
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Bob closed the business early last year, due to very poor health and sold off all his stock and equipment.
Shame .. he was poorly when I 1st bought off him yonks ago though Julie so it doesn't surprise me that he's packed it all in.
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That’s a real bummer Dave, interesting to hear the out come with DSS!
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Hi Dave
As soon as I saw that piping on the front I knew you have a dud, whenever something is mass produced you get some, same with people! ;D I hope they send you a better one. I've had a few of the DSS seats, the squirrels forced a purchase that shouldn't have been needed, I haven't had any trouble except with the first one, but that turned out to be because there was a rubber stopper on the frame in association with the aftermarket seat in this pic.
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I am wondering if a new supplier out of the ashes of Moretti .. (Bob-the-seat) is now supplying DS and their quality isn't as good as the ones Bobs company was making for DS.
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I've been sent another seat from DSS last week together with a genuine Honda rubber block to replace the oversized block fitted to rgd pattern seat. The piping is straight but it still doesn't fit properly with the nose of the seat rubbing on the tank preventing the seat from closing. I'm going to elongate the fixings holes in the hinge that fits onto the seat pan by 10mm.
Looking at the box it came in it appears to be made in China. There are marks in the vinyl welding as well. It appears as though there's a sacrificial layer that is peeled off following the vinyl welding but in this case it looks like it hasn't all come off.
DSS have said if I'm not happy I can send it back for a full refund, to give DSS some credit, they have tried to help but I feel they already know there's an issue with these pattern parts, this is the second one with the same problem as the first one.
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They probably do know the quality isn’t quite right but if they have bought a lode in they will keep trying to sell them, so if it’s not right send it back and get your money back. If you have your old seat why not get it recovered by a U.K. firm. Even if your seat base isn’t in great condition they can get it repaired and powered coated. I hope to do this with my 550 seat, the base is in very poor condition, worse than I thought so I need to call them again to check they will take it on.
I can let you have the name of the company I am going to use if you like, I haven’t got it with me at the moment. They are not cheap, costs are higher than a repro seat but they are supposed to be excellent.
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I've been sent another seat from DSS last week together with a genuine Honda rubber block to replace the oversized block fitted to rgd pattern seat. The piping is straight but it still doesn't fit properly with the nose of the seat rubbing on the tank preventing the seat from closing. I'm going to elongate the fixings holes in the hinge that fits onto the seat pan by 10mm.
Looking at the box it came in it appears to be made in China. There are marks in the vinyl welding as well. It appears as though there's a sacrificial layer that is peeled off following the vinyl welding but in this case it looks like it hasn't all come off.
DSS have said if I'm not happy I can send it back for a full refund, to give DSS some credit, they have tried to help but I feel they already know there's an issue with these pattern parts, this is the second one with the same problem as the first one.
Hi Dave, as mentioned, I fitted a new DSS seat last August which fitted perfectly apart from needing the old rubbers being used. I still have the original which has a perfect base, the original foam is still in good enough condition to make your arse ache, and the cover has a couple of small splits in it, which is why I replaced it. If you are interested I can post a couple of pics, and you can 'Make me an offer that I can't refuse!' Regards, Mike. PS, obviously I have had to use the lock and hinge.
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I have never used them directly but I once bought a job lot of parts which included CB250K0 and SS125A refurbished seats, which I found out had been done by R.K. Leightons in Birmingham. The quality was superb and they had managed to get the crocodile skin patterned vinyl and correct gold piping for the SS125 seat.
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I wonder what these covers made by Saddlecraft in South Sheilds are like ... have HONDA logo too.
https://www.saddlecraft.co.uk/product/honda-cb400-four/
Wonder if they bought Bob's tooling?
[attachimg=1]
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Thank you very much for the offers everyone, much appreciated. I have already filed the mounting holes in the seat hinge (they are now 10mm long) and tried the new seat, it does fit better both at the nose and the seat plunger location but still needs the slots making longer. However, using a round file in such a small hole is tedious so I bought a set of 5mm grinding stones for my Dremmel from ebay, just waiting for them to arrive before giving it another go.
I'll post some photos here of the seat and how it fits.
I wouldn't buy another pattern seat from DSS if these are the ones he is now selling. The seat cover posted by Ash looks the way to go in future and if I had the luxury of the original seat but the one on Ratty was a 2:4 seat. I heavily modified it for my mate 42 years ago to make it a stepped seat to enable his girlfriend to see over the top of his head! It was still fitted to the bike when I bought it last year, it stank of rats and went down the council tip!
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I wonder what these covers made by Saddlecraft in South Sheilds are like ... have HONDA logo too.
https://www.saddlecraft.co.uk/product/honda-cb400-four/
Wonder if they bought Bob's tooling?
(Attachment Link)
I had a seat made by them for the Z650 custom I did and it was spot on don't know about their covers.
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I had the same problem with a 750 seat from DSS. The hinge and / or lock was in the wrong position. The seat was also not square to the frame. First fitting was a complete failure. There was no way it would engage into the lock. I had also already sprayed on the logo and the packaging had gone in the bin. This was the final step in my restoration / renovation. So, I was itching to just get on and ride.
I did what you're doing and elongated holes. I also packed with spacers and ended up with it being less noticeable, with an easy click shut. I'm also not impressed with the shiny trim piece around the seat base, which is wrinkled, with a clear polythene coating coming adrift. To my shame, I didn't let DSS know about the problem.
I am now much more careful about checking parts from DS, before I commit. That said, I recently bought replacement screws for the points cover, as mine are shabby. They are NLA, but DS offered the same thread and head, which I would need to cut down by a few mm. When they arrived they were too short! Will cost me more in postage to return them than I'd get as a refund. Fun and games. Still, I'm glad they're around, as my bike wouldn't be on the road without the large number of parts I've had from them.
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I wonder what these covers made by Saddlecraft in South Sheilds are like ... have HONDA logo too.
Interesting but I gather they take a lot of fitting for those not skilled at it! Tools?
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I'm thinking there might be some decent upholsterers down the smoke who would fit one?
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I used to fit seat covers on bikes when I was 'on the tools' as a coach trimmer during my lunch break. Mostly it was on Honda C50/70/90’s and 125 singles as these were popular with the workforce back then (early 80’s). A lot of the time I had to resort to using Dunlop S758 adhesive to stick the new cover on as the steel hooks on the pressed steel seat pans had rotted away or just broke off through rust. Once a seat cover splits it allows water into the foam and it will just sit there collecting in the lower edge of of the seat base and rotting out the metal hooks.