Honda-SOHC

SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Athame57 on August 05, 2024, 05:39:36 PM

Title: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 05, 2024, 05:39:36 PM
I got myself a pair of new clocks, they are pattern but look really good if I'm to be asked and they come with new dishes and seals. I can get the originals restored in my own time. Thet cost £89.00 and £95.00 plus VAT from DSS, which is a lot cheaper than those which seem to be from the same source on Ebay.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 05, 2024, 05:42:41 PM
That's a good price any idea of Brand ?
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 05, 2024, 08:21:49 PM
That's a good price any idea of Brand ?
The best I can do is 'made in Taiwan'  ;D ... at least it's not Peking!
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mikep328 on August 05, 2024, 09:20:34 PM
Nice!!! Thanks for posting, just ordered a pair!!!
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mike_Berkshire on August 05, 2024, 09:34:21 PM
They come with the dishes and seals too! Crikey that is a good deal. I was looking at pattern seals and dishes and decided not to get them due to the cost plus only one dish seemed to be available in pattern version. Maybe I need to think again.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 05, 2024, 09:49:47 PM
Nice!!! Thanks for posting, just ordered a pair!!!
I think DS owes me a discount!  ;D
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 05, 2024, 09:58:17 PM
That's a good price any idea of Brand ?
The best I can do is 'made in Taiwan'  ;D ... at least it's not Peking!

They look spot on plus a good price compared to restoration & buying the cushions. Thanks for posting.👍🛵👍
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mikep328 on August 07, 2024, 02:54:50 PM
Got the tach/speedo today and agree that they are gorgeous! 

Also..in the box was a flyer for the DSS "Honda Open Day" on September 28 to celebrate the CB400.  Looks interesting.  If it was a bit closer I'd go but at 200 road miles each way that's too far for a day trip and I don't care to stay overnight.   Anybody planning on going? 
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 07, 2024, 08:31:39 PM
Got the tach/speedo today and agree that they are gorgeous! 

Also..in the box was a flyer for the DSS "Honda Open Day" on September 28 to celebrate the CB400.  Looks interesting.  If it was a bit closer I'd go but at 200 road miles each way that's too far for a day trip and I don't care to stay overnight.   Anybody planning on going?
Glad I've recommended something good then! I know about the Honda open day and I think I will be going, just so long as it isn't raining or I have something about the bike in doubt. There was a mini event like that at the Ace Cafe in London by the Honda Owners  Club West London ( HOWL) I went and so do did Laverda Dave with his own CB400F. The five CB400Fs that arrived were the most I've seen together. See pic.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Laverda Dave on August 07, 2024, 08:42:42 PM
I'm planning to go on Ratty the restored 400/4 if I can get it finished and run in. If not I'll ride the 400/4 I took to the Ace Cafe.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: taysidedragon on August 07, 2024, 11:42:01 PM
I'm going with a mate, but driving down. 😕
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mikep328 on August 08, 2024, 05:58:32 AM
Nice pics from the Ace.  Would have been fun!  We were last there a couple of years ago, prior to owning the 400.  I was on my '19 Kawasaki Z900RS Cafe but at least it was another in-line four!!!  :)
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 08, 2024, 01:27:37 PM
To anyone else who just got a new Tacho from DSS, did you get the same problem as me, mounting bolt on wrong side? I think they sent me the wrong model? Speedo fit fine, but from different seller.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mikep328 on August 08, 2024, 02:01:41 PM
I haven't been to the bike (about 1/2 mile away) so haven't actually checked but my new tach is the same as yours in the pic so I assume it won't mount. :( 

One would think that DSS would have noticed something so obvious before making them available.  Very disappointing...  Surely all CB400s had the same mounting bracket so there wouldn't have been two different tachs (or two different backs).  Right?

I guess you could use the original back on the new tach but again, that's not the correct thing to do  Let us know what DSS says...



Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 08, 2024, 02:09:35 PM
I just got an email back from them, here is the important part:
' I have checked our stock of these pattern meters and I can see what you mean,  we will be swapping the meter bases on all those we have here (the speedo bases have been fitted to the tachometers and vice versa).   We will send you a correct tachometer base now.

Please return the incorrect base when possible.   Sorry for this issue.'
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 08, 2024, 02:34:42 PM
My late father always said a firms reputation is only as good as it's worst employee.
Looks like DS is the same.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 08, 2024, 02:48:33 PM
My late father always said a firms reputation is only as good as it's worst employee.
Looks like DS is the same.
I think it is their batch Ted. Maybe some dizzy worker in Taiwan can't tell the difference between Ying and Yang and messed them up.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 08, 2024, 03:05:59 PM
That made me smile.😁😁😁

There seems to be a few issues with some DS Parts I had the problem with my 500 rear lock ring, other members have had issues with their 400 Petrol Tank and a recent seat not fitting. Might be a change in suppliers due to price pressures so customers become part of  the quality control loop.There seems to be a few issues with some DS Parts I had the problem with my 500 rear lock ring, other members have had issues with their 400 Petrol Tank and a recent seat not fitting. Might be a change in suppliers due to price pressures so customers become part of  the quality control loop.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: TrickyMicky on August 08, 2024, 03:18:09 PM
As the clocks look as good as they do, changing the backs is not such an earth shattering problem eh?  I'm sure that if you went to any dealer for a part you would not expect them to have opened up every single box of every item to check the contents. If I bought an item and saw the box had been opened, I would be suspicious.   
      On a different subject, is anno domini catching up with me or what?  But I was trying to attach a photo to an earlier post, and it keeps getting returned as "too large".  I don't think I am doing anything differently to what I have done before, have the requirements been altered at all?
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 08, 2024, 03:18:20 PM
Ted.... your link didn't work, always check a link before you leave it!  ;D
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 08, 2024, 03:21:07 PM
As the clocks look as good as they do, changing the backs is not such an earth shattering problem eh?  ...
Nah, it's not earth shattering and they are reacting quickly too. I had wondered if I had been posted the Tacho from a different model or something.  ;)
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 08, 2024, 03:41:16 PM
Ted.... your link didn't work, always check a link before you leave it!  ;D
I did not knowingly post a link I'm using my phone it has a mind of it's own.
I think I have deleted the ghost link.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mikep328 on August 09, 2024, 06:33:57 AM
In comparing the speedo/tach backs on the pair I received to the old/new pics of the tach posted previously, I see that my new speedo back matches the pic of the "old" tach back.  The tach back of the new pair is the opposite.  So I'll swap the backs and they should fit properly.   Again, this should have been checked at DSS before shipping but it's a 5 minute "fix." 

Of course, if the backs are the same on a new tach and speedo, one of them won't mount and will have to be replaced by DSS.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 09, 2024, 08:17:19 AM
In comparing the speedo/tach backs on the pair I received to the old/new pics of the tach posted previously, I see that my new speedo back matches the pic of the "old" tach back.  The tach back of the new pair is the opposite.  So I'll swap the backs and they should fit properly.
This is what DSS quickly discovered, however I had gotten my speedo from a different source and it was ok, I had nothing to compare my ill fitting tacho with. DSS have responded well though, post office guaranteed delivery by 13.00hrs today. To be fair to DSS though, how do you expect this to happen? :o
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mikep328 on August 09, 2024, 01:22:57 PM
I swapped the backs and the clocks mounted perfectly on the bike with no issues at all.  Had to unbolt the headlight shell to get the new wires in - not enough clearance with it in place to get my fingers behind it.  The whole operation to swap the backs, remove the old/install the new clocks took maybe 45 minutes.

One thing to be aware of for Concours folks if you haven't already noticed from the pics posted earlier:  The clocks do NOT have the "NIPPON SEIKI" trademark at the 6 o'clock position on the face AND the speedo has a label at the "130" MPH mark where on the original (at least on my '76 UK model), "120" is the last labeled index line.  The original has an index line for 130 MPH but it is not labeled 
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 09, 2024, 04:55:57 PM
One thing to be aware of for Concours folks if you haven't already noticed from the pics posted earlier:  The clocks do NOT have the "NIPPON SEIKI" trademark at the 6 o'clock position on the face AND the speedo has a label at the "130" MPH mark where on the original (at least on my '76 UK model), "120" is the last labeled index line.  The original has an index line for 130 MPH but it is not labeled
You've got the version 2 then, mine has 130 mph labeled, and yes, if you peep down the bottom side you'll see Nippon Seiki down there. The is also a version that has the speed in Kph in smaller numerals on the inside track. See this: https://www.cb750faces.com/en/honda-cb400-four/86-437-honda-cb400f-four-face-plates-set-mph.html#/29-set_of_two_crimp_rings-not_included/61-version_speedo-version_1
Version 1 is obviously for the UK market because of the red line at 70mph.
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 09, 2024, 05:22:26 PM
Well ain't that pretty?  ;D My correct tacho base arrived this morning, boy DSS put that right quick. Fitting still wasn't plain sailing for me though because while the headlamp shell was open I had pulled a wire that was going to give at some point anyway from the light bulb housing, fixing that it wasn't a job I could do myself for the want of tools, so off to the garage and it cost me £20.oo to get sorted, stil it could have happened in a worse time and place!  ;)
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: kent400 on August 09, 2024, 08:54:19 PM
Speedometers fitted to the 400 Fours marked to 130mph were only sold in the USA, UK models were marked to 120mph no idea why there's a difference. Internally both types are the same. Replica ones are only suitable for the F1 model as the F2 has a km/h scale in green on the dial face.

A few owners have been unhappy with the CB750F replica gauges, internally those are similar to Seiki gauges and nothing like the the original ND ones. Those are only suitable for later models with a side trip reset rather than those that have the rear reset.

Only a few weeks ago a never fitted CB750F tacho appeared, Marked ND with a dial face screw that had fallen out and obviously the screw hasn't been tightened when the gauge was assembled.   In fact it wasn't an ND the mechanism it was a Seiki type. Obviously a replica masquerading as a genuine ND. Something to watch out for.

As for the replica 400F ones it will be interesting to hear owners  views as time goes by.   
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mikep328 on August 12, 2024, 09:47:09 AM
As is true with most pattern parts for just about any vehicle, the ONLY people that will know the difference is a Concours judge...or some folks on this website!  Nobody that walks up and looks at the bike is going to notice that (in the case of the DSS instruments) there is no "NIPPON SEIKI" trademark/logo in small caps at the bottom of the face (6'oclock position) OR that it has "130" at the last index mark where the original UK version did not.

One thing that MIGHT be worth considering re adding the new clocks is that they (of course) look brand new while the rest of the bike probably does not.  I will admit that while I really disliked the faded red zone of the old tach,  I would prefer a little bit of "fading" on the new ones to better match the bike.  I still want it "red," not a slightly pinkish off-white like my old one, just a tiny bit less red!  :)
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 12, 2024, 11:49:10 AM
One thing that MIGHT be worth considering re adding the new clocks is that they (of course) look brand new while the rest of the bike probably does not.  I will admit that while I really disliked the faded red zone of the old tach,  I would prefer a little bit of "fading" on the new ones to better match the bike.  I still want it "red," not a slightly pinkish off-white like my old one, just a tiny bit less red!  :)
I've got a new tank & cap, switchgear and repainted yoke to go with my clocks  ;D With a bit of patience your red zone will fade especially if you make apoint of leaving it in the sunlight, right now would be a good time to start!  ;)
I now know the 130mph speedo I just changed can't have been the original so I don't know even more so what her true mileage is, not that I really care. 
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mikep328 on August 12, 2024, 12:13:55 PM
Good point, I didn't even think about the mileage..DOH!!!  I would prefer it was correct but I guess the only way to put 14,782 miles on the new speedo is with an electric drill and plenty of time! 
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Athame57 on August 12, 2024, 12:38:31 PM
Good point, I didn't even think about the mileage..DOH!!!  I would prefer it was correct but I guess the only way to put 14,782 miles on the new speedo is with an electric drill and plenty of time!
That would be easy compared to me, I would have to put nearly 43,000 miles on and it still wouldn't be right!  :o
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Bryanj on August 12, 2024, 01:26:21 PM
Back in the 70's had an argument with an officious trading standards muppet about how accurate bike oddometers were, he eventually conceded that considering the number of speedo cables we sold AND the number of new speedos we fitted to accident jobs that the recorded mileage was spurious.
He wanted a sticker on every speedo, he got a notice on the wall and a paragraph in every sales document
Title: Re: New pattern clocks
Post by: Mikep328 on August 12, 2024, 02:02:18 PM
Actually, considering that the engine on my CB400 was rebuilt by a shop in '22 (I have all the receipts), I guess the new speedometer with 0 miles is more correct, engine-wise anyway, than the original speedo!  :)  So I decided it's OK!!! :)