Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: TezzerTel on October 11, 2024, 08:29:37 PM
-
So I thought I'd put a little about progress on my CB550. Having stripped the majority of it the frame has been powder coated. I rebuilt the forks a while ago and today assembled them to the frame. Progress from here on will probably be somewhat slower!
-
A little bit further on but struggling to find time.
-
Looking good, just an observation iirc if you put the rear front half mudguard in place this early it will make assembly of the carbs, battery box more difficult later on. I also used some straps to make the frame more secure against accidental tipping. The front wheel clamp helps as does getting the centre stand in place for added stability.
Just trying to be helpful not critical we all have our own methods.
As I work almost always alone i had to think a lot about logistics. If your bike ramp has a removable panel at the rear assembling the bike with the rear wheel at the clamp end makes removal of the front wheel much easier. The rear wheel slots in from the horizontal easily when the rear most fender is not in place. With the centre stand in place it raises the rear end so fitting the swing arm etc is much easier. With the bike in this way arounf fitting the front wheel by removing the rear ramp panel (if you have one) makes it easy.
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.
-
Any help much appreciated. I didn't know that fitting the front half of the rear mudguard would upset fitting the carbs. I didn't think there was a easy way around that? I'm sure many parts will go on and off the bike as I go along 😳
-
On my 400 & 500 I found that when the engine is in place with the hope that the carbs will not have to come off again fitting the carbs then building back works well. The battery box is a puzzle to fit into the frame, having the rear front half mudguard out just makes life easier with less collateral damage to your knuckles & patience. 😁
-
Good work Tezzer Tel, as it starts to look more bike shaped it feels that all the hard prep work is paying off.
-
On my 400 & 500 I found that when the engine is in place with the hope that the carbs will not have to come off again fitting the carbs then building back works well. The battery box is a puzzle to fit into the frame, having the rear front half mudguard out just makes life easier with less collateral damage to your knuckles & patience. 😁
Good advice Ted
The carbs installation ... emphasise that the cleaning of idle circuits, their passageway and jets is so, so very important to them running correctly and staying on there once you get running.
Many times on here and the wider biking Internet world, not enough importance is given to this element, with resulting running issues that are obviously frustrating. It further seems that putting them in ultrasonic cleaning routine just doesn't guarantee that they are effectively operational.
Absolutely imperative in these carbs, playing such importance in how the engine will run, also massive contribution to that Honda 4 cylinder smoothness that people rebuilding their bikes have in mind on completion of project.
They, the idle circuit, control so much and far more than many appreciate.
-
All looking good so far! Really good to see it taking form. Can I add to the good advice above (and sorry for stating the obvious) a good idea to have the carbs held in position and flooded with petrol just to check integrity of float valves, and carb float bowl seals etc.
-
I was hoping to get it to point where it is on its wheels and I could move it around without the engine before I started on the engine. Maybe I'm just making more work for myself 😳
-
All looking good so far! Really good to see it taking form. Can I add to the good advice above (and sorry for stating the obvious) a good idea to have the carbs held in position and flooded with petrol just to check integrity of float valves, and carb float bowl seals etc.
That's a good tip, I would add however it might flood on first filling with petrol as the floats can stick when they have been fully down in an empty carb - when the bowls are completely empty the angle between the tip of the float valve and the tang on the float can be just too acute initially.
If it floods virtually straight away, switch of the fuel supply, rock the bike a tad on the stand and let it settle & stop then see if it floods when you open the tap again It can be a one off.
-
So now I'm slowly putting it back together what points/parts of my freshly powder coated frame needs taking back to bare metal for electrical connectivity? I'd sooner do it now rather than chasing bad/no earth later on it the build!
-
Both sides of the RH rear engine nount big engine through bolt goes and the coil mounting bracket where the small green wire goes
-
IMHO what you need is one good high quality earth point rather than several earth points all over the place. There are two areas as I see it, battery earth to the frame and the engine, good earth for the loom to frame earth near the coils.
I concentrated on the main battery cable earth point where the cable from the battery attaches to the frame lug where the upper rear engine mounting bolts through the frame. I made sure there was good clean contact betwwen the earth strap and the bolt head, the frame where the bolts sits on the upper right hand side, the inside part of the frame, likewise at the left side where the nut fits onto the engine mounting bolt.
Second area was where the wiring loom has that spur on the 500 near the coils on the left side of the frame. I also provided dedicated earth wires for all four indicators.
If I've missed something there will be comments from others.
Update Bryan has already posted the short version!
-
Thanks that's a great help
-
So I've rebuilt both my wheels and had some nice new Continental tyres fitted.
I looked through my removed parts box and found these. Can't remember exactly where they came from !! Do the fir on the headlight mounts?
-
The aint Honda parts so no idea
-
The story so far
-
That looks all nice, new & clean.
No rear drive gear etc in place yet, presumably the chain guard will have to come off again, I like the idea of fitting it to see how it all looks.
Is the rear brake pedal in place as on some models you can't fit the brake pivot shaft with the rear swing arm in place.
-
Yes the rear brake spindle that the brake lever is in. I've already taken the swingarm out to fit it :-[
I'm a little confused how the sprocket cover plate and seal fit together. Does the seal fit into the sprocket cover plate? I suspect it does but it doesn't like staying in mine
-
That looks like a couple of butchered washers been home made for spacers or the like, as Bryan says not Honda parts. Bike is looking very good though, nice work. Some lovely RC aircraft in the background too!😜
-
I had that issue, the seal does not fit in the retainer IIRC but as you say the cover plate.
If you scroll down to the diagram you can see how the O ring and the seal in the outer cover plate keeps the water out.
I had this conundrum see P51 of my build below
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,28541.750.html
-
So I've rebuilt both my wheels and had some nice new Continental tyres fitted.
I looked through my removed parts box and found these. Can't remember exactly where they came from !! Do the fir on the headlight mounts?
They almost look like a home made attempt at top yoke 'D' washers 🤔🤔🤔🤔
It's all looking very good Terry.
-
That looks like a couple of butchered washers been home made for spacers or the like, as Bryan says not Honda parts. Bike is looking very good though, nice work. Some lovely RC aircraft in the background too!😜
Yes I've been building and flying RC aircraft for a few years now. If you think old Honda's are expensive try RC aircraft :o
-
I had that issue, the seal does not fit in the retainer IIRC but as you say the cover plate.
If you scroll down to the diagram you can see how the O ring and the seal in the outer cover plate keeps the water out.
I had this conundrum see P51 of my build below
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,28541.750.html
Thanks I'll have a read
-
Ok so the 'C' type washers are not standard so no need to worry about them! I think there was 1 on each side of something at the front so I think there were either on the indicators or headlamp fixings
-
That looks like a couple of butchered washers been home made for spacers or the like, as Bryan says not Honda parts. Bike is looking very good though, nice work. Some lovely RC aircraft in the background too!😜
Yes I've been building and flying RC aircraft for a few years now. If you think old Honda's are expensive try RC aircraft :o
I have a long standing friend who is into RC Helicopters using full control consul. After a few expensive crashes he has gone back to model aircraft.
-
I had a quick look at how my seal fits in the sprocket cover plate today. I lightly greased it and it just pops straight back out again. I had my cover plate powder coated so I'm wondering if that's the problem? I could try removing the powder coat from the bore where the seal fits and glueing it in place?
-
Should be a reasonable press fit
-
It is a nice press fit but with grease it just pops straight back out. I'm wondering it the seal i have is to wide and/or there's a taper on my cover plate exaggerated by the powder coat?
-
Parts book does not show dimensions.
Shown as 55 x34 x9 on Wemoto site.
-
I think the issue is there is a 2.5mm radius in the bottom of the bore where the seal fits. The seal has a very small radius on the front of it. I've managed to 'scrape' a radius on the front of the seal and it all seems to fit nicely now without popping out.
-
That sounds like you have some thick powder coating.
Were the originals painted or Zinc plated.
I just sprayed mine with a thin layer of black paint to keep costs down.
-
I tried scraping any powder coat out of the corner but it wasn't thick. I think it's because it a pressed steel part maybe modern seals have a sharper corner?
-
Been looking at putting my rear indicators on tonight and the rubbers that they mount on seem to be handed but I only have 1 hand? In the parts diagram there only seems to be 1 hand (Part No.16) has anyone any knowledge on this?
-
They aren't handed Terry, they are both the same if I remember correctly, thats if you have the original ones fitted. The fiché only shows 1 part number and CMS say you need 2 of the same part number.
-
I imagine they are the original ones seems a bit odd they wouldn't have made them handed ?
-
I imagine they are the original ones seems a bit odd they wouldn't have made them handed ?
Not really, Honda were masters at using the same item in different places to keep costs down.
-
IIRC on my 500 that is a UK model with the USA rear loop fitted I found a similar issue.
I'll trawl through my XL build log to see what I did.
-
The rubbers are identical, the steel brackets are handed and you put the steel tube in the opposite hole in the rubber(but same physical positio front to back) for the screw to clamp on.
I have seen in the past the same clamp used both sides and the stem on one side fitted backwards, one of those things you stand looking at, know there is something wrong but cant figure what till the light bulb goes on
-
Thats's right Bryan, its coming back to me now, my 500 had either two left hand or two right hand brackets that were somehow made to fit!
I replaced the rear brackets/indicators with some aftermarket ones that I retro fitted with an earth wire from the bulb holder.
-
Probably me Ted, building from my box of bits to a budget mate
-
The rubbers are identical, the steel brackets are handed and you put the steel tube in the opposite hole in the rubber(but same physical positio front to back) for the screw to clamp on.
I have seen in the past the same clamp used both sides and the stem on one side fitted backwards, one of those things you stand looking at, know there is something wrong but cant figure what till the light bulb goes on
My steel brackets are handed so as I see it I can't put the stem in the opposite hole because the nuts that are welded to the brackets are either both forwards or both rearwards?
-
Correct with original but you can fit the bracket the other way round so one screw is at front the other at rear and trawling the 4 into 1 web site i saw pattern brackets and rubbers available
-
If I fit 1 bracket the other way around then the nut will be on the outside?
-
No, still the nut on inside the bolt moves from front to back or vice versa
-
That can't happen the bracket is a 'U' shape and the bottom of the 'U' has to stay at the bottom as it bolts on to a plate welded to the grab rail. Therefore the only way to turn it around is move the inside to the outside moving the nut to the outside
-
The bottom stays the bottom but the left and right swop, it means the screw swops holes and the stem has the screw at rear instead of front
-
Yes exactly this puts the nut that's welded to the 'winker stopper' on the outside rather than the inside. With the not on the outside I can't screw the indicator stem to it
-
A photo might help us/ me understand the problem better?
-
I cant describe it any other way, the nut changes holes but stays on the back
-
Here you go the long awaited photos of what I have
-
In the lower pic take the RH one and without lifting off the table rotate it 180 degrees and look at it, the nut changes holes as it were, the holes in the rubber are both the same size with the bolt one having a steel insert tube, you then rotate the stem 180 degrees and fit it then rotate the head 180 so it faces backwards.
I know it works as i have done it, yes it looks different each side but can you look at both sides at same time and do you want it perfect or working
-
The trouble is if I rotate it 180° degrees then the nut is on the outside. Dont both nuts need to be on the inside so it clamps up?
-
Your 550 might be different to my 500 K1, I have the US type rear grab rail, mine is powder coated in black as the chrome was rusty. Difficult to get my camera in, your brackets look handed as they should be. Do these photos help?
On mine the captive nut is facing the front of the bike with both nuts on the inside front.
Looking at your photo the one in the lower photo on the left is for the right side, the othe is for the left side?
Daft question, were the indicators fitted when you bought the bike or were the parts loose in boxes?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54243487296_f2a1ff8a9a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qDj3XA)PXL_20250103_091149041 (https://flic.kr/p/2qDj3XA) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54243487306_c59004cefd_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qDj3XL)PXL_20250103_091225882 (https://flic.kr/p/2qDj3XL) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54243905085_bd59dfdedf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2qDmc9R)PXL_20250103_093426281 (https://flic.kr/p/2qDmc9R) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
-
They were fitted but I didn't take any photos. I can fit them and they will both be in the forward or rearward hole. The brackets are handed but the rubber are not
-
ok my two pennyworth. you have a left and a right bracket there so correct. the later 550 are different to the earlier 500/550, as can be seen in your pic they are higher at one end, higher end to the rear of bike, the screw is in the front hole. brackets are handed, rubbers are not. will try to post a pic of my old 550 f2 which has the same set up as yours. edit still having trouble posting pics from laptop will try from phone
-
That makes sense it's a shame they didn't make the rubbers handed as well. One side matches the contour of the bracket but the other side will not
-
Pic
-
Yes that's right but on the other side the rubbers doesn't lone up with the edge of the bracket?
-
I've finally found a bit of time to get back on the rebuild and back on the site!
So next question- would the intake manifolds be bare aluminum or painted the same as the engine castings from new?
-
Bare aluminium. But what the hell, paint them. Or cerakote in burnt bronze.