Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: TezzerTel on November 01, 2024, 08:29:53 AM
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I'm sure this has been ased a thousand times already but!!!!
I thought these bikes required mineral oil but I'm struggling to find mineral oil that's motorcycle specific? So do I go for non motorcycle mineral oil, semi synthetic motorcycle oil or keep looking!
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I use 10-40 semi synthetic
Either Mannol
Triple Q,from euro car parts
In the past I have used Mobil one,0-40 full synthetic
My bike has done 80k+
And the wear is negligible
Sent from my SM-A546E using Tapatalk
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If you see Mineral Oil that is 10W/40 that's all that matters, it does not need to say Motorcycle Oil specifically on the can. Like John says an oil sold as semi-synthetic is also fine. I suspect that the cheaper stuff sold by Asda & other brands is lower in the semi-synth content. The real key is regular oil change routines.
For many decades manufacturers have lost the after market sales for oil now they are fighting back.
The level of Pseudo-Science marketing now embarked upon by manufacturers is beyond a joke.
My Volvo handbook implores me to use only Volvo Engine Oil for topping up - it retails at around £22 for a LItre of 0W/20 that is made by Castrol for Volvo. They then add the specification must meet the Volvo VCC-RBSO-2AE 0W/20 specification, call me cynical but I suspect when they are filling the bottles for Volvo it comes out of the same tank as Castrol Edge 0W/20 that they also sell to BMW etc.
The idea that each make of car needs a specification of 0W/20 plus a row of meanigless letters after its name is absolute nonesense imho. At one time it was the same with ATF oils but these days that falsehood has ended.
When Merc sold the original Smart Cars the oil they sold that was supplied soley to MB was in a Castrol Branded container, they marketed it as Castrol Longtech - at that time sold it exclusively to MB. It was not available outside the dealer network. Boy did the Smart Car owners complain about the oil cost on a service. On Mercs in the event of an engine failure our workshops had to send a sample of the engine oil to MB for analysis before they would meet the warranty payment to the dealer.
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10w40 mineral motorbike oil is hard to find now, I and many other CBX 1000 owners use Valvoline 20w50 VR1 Racing mineral oil, however the original spec was a 10w40 oil same as the 550 and just about every other Honda at the time. There was just oil no special motorbike oil back in the day and I always used Castro GTX.
The problem with the CBX and Semisynthetic oil is the clutch which can tend to slip, however if the friction plates are changed to a more modern material then the problem goes, so some owners do now use semisynthetic oil with seemingly no problem.
A problem with a part synthetic oil could be bore glazing on a lightly used classic bike engine, I see a simple answer to that, Don’t Ride like a Pussy, they like a bit of a thrash😄
I know this answer isnt SOHC specific but I think the same thing with engine oil apply to most classic Hondas.
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Look at diesel engine 10w40 mineral oils, they usually meet the 70's sae specs for the Hondas
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I’ve used this for the last 3k miles and it works fine. I changed the oil at 250 miles for running in, then again at 1500miles before I stored the bike for 8months. No clutch slip and there was no debris in the oil, on the pick up screen or magnetic sump plug. I also dropped the oil pan and clutch cover to see if there was anything lurking, but found the engine to be immaculate internally. The oil was filthy black mind. I have zero oil leaks.
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Oh, and it’s £16 for 4 litres at the moment👍👍
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I use the same, when I can get it, Tescos finest!😜
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Look at diesel engine 10w40 mineral oils, they usually meet the 70's sae specs for the Hondas
Would this be along the same lines, it’s 15w40?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241101/1e713f5b76e8342193ed011fb7bc37f7.png)
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As long as it does not have "friction modifiers" listed as in it should be fine, look at the SE rating in your handbook and on the can
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As long as it does not have "friction modifiers" listed as in it should be fine, look at the SE rating in your handbook and on the can
What Bryan says. 👍 It's the friction modifiers in car oil that cause clutch slip in our wet clutch bikes.
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If you don't ride at subzero temperatures, a 15W-40 is the better choice. Mineral or semi-synthetic are both OK. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186850.msg2168655.html#msg2168655
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A problem with a part synthetic oil could be bore glazing on a lightly used classic bike engine, I see a simple answer to that, Don’t Ride like a Pussy, they like a bit of a thrash😄
I know this answer isnt SOHC specific but I think the same thing with engine oil apply to most classic Hondas.
I really can't see any reason how a part synthetic oil or fully synthetic oil would have any bearing on bore glazing.
The synthetic base oil is stable for much longer periods of time in an engine. They do this by making the base oil from scratch rather than refining crude oil. A lot of it is to do with the molecular structure of the oil itself, you have more linear molecules that are chemically the same as branch chain molecules. As crude oil has it's origins from plants (organic) there are a wide variety of oil structures within the oil - more branch chain than linear. With synthetic oil you manufacture the base oil using a stronger molecule that takes longer to loose it's essential properties as they use a stronger molecular structure as a starting point.
Back in the 1960's ICI manufactured semi-synthetic petrol as a by-product of the chemical industries they had in the UK including the by-products from Town Gas & making smokeless coal before we converted to North Sea Gas in around 1971 ish.
A gallon of ICI synthetic petrol was heavier than normal petrol due to having much fewer branch chain molecules so it was more dense. As a bonus it was also marginally better as a return on mpg. Once we had switched to North Sea Gas it was no longer economical to manufacture synthetic petrol. I have tried to simplfy the difference but there is an optimum length of carbon molecules involved. https://www.chemistryworld.com/features/is-synthetic-petroleum-the-missing-link-in-the-route-to-net-zero/4015785.article
I'm not sure if a gallon of synthetic oils is heavier than a gallon of mineral oil - I suspect it might be marginally denser.
When Mobil1 was being developed they had a problem with the sulphur build up in engine oils over a certain mileage due to acid build up - the solution was to add micronised chalk to neutralise the acid.
Aside from the base oil starting point most mineral & synthetic oils contain very similar additatives when they reach the oil can.
Update - Diesel oil contains a lot more detergent to keep the carbon in suspension - hence why Shell Rotella turns jet black within a few miles after an oil change.
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All i can add to the synthetic/mineral debate is the V6/8 Merc commercial diesels after rebuild are run in on mineral oil and dont tend to leak or burn oil, after service they swap to long life synthetic and guess what, they leak and burn oil!
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All i can add to the synthetic/mineral debate is the V6/8 Merc commercial diesels after rebuild are run in on mineral oil and dont tend to leak or burn oil, after service they swap to long life synthetic and guess what, they leak and burn oil!
True Bryan, fully Synthetic oil is very searching, plus being so thin on a worn engne you will burn oil.
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Murfs' post above suggesting a motorcycle specific oil is hard to find, he has missed Shell Advance AX7. ( used to be called VSX )
It's motorbike specific . My VFR750 has done 86,000 on it and has never used a drop between services.
Top stuff in the right viscosities and spec for motorcycle clutches. I won't buy anything else.
Can be expensive, but I wait for a discount to appear and put some away for future use.
I should add, it's also in my lower mileage CB550f and my 250 Superdream.
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A problem with a part synthetic oil could be bore glazing on a lightly used classic bike engine, I see a simple answer to that, Don’t Ride like a Pussy, they like a bit of a thrash😄
I know this answer isnt SOHC specific but I think the same thing with engine oil apply to most classic Hondas.
I really can't see any reason how a part synthetic oil or fully synthetic oil would have any bearing on bore glazing.
The synthetic base oil is stable for much longer periods of time in an engine. They do this by making the base oil from scratch rather than refining crude oil. A lot of it is to do with the molecular structure of the oil itself, you have more linear molecules that are chemically the same as branch chain molecules. As crude oil has it's origins from plants (organic) there are a wide variety of oil structures within the oil - more branch chain than linear. With synthetic oil you manufacture the base oil using a stronger molecule that takes longer to loose it's essential properties as they use a stronger molecular structure as a starting point.
Back in the 1960's ICI manufactured semi-synthetic petrol as a by-product of the chemical industries they had in the UK including the by-products from Town Gas & making smokeless coal before we converted to North Sea Gas in around 1971 ish.
A gallon of ICI synthetic petrol was heavier than normal petrol due to having much fewer branch chain molecules so it was more dense. As a bonus it was also marginally better as a return on mpg. Once we had switched to North Sea Gas it was no longer economical to manufacture synthetic petrol. I have tried to simplfy the difference but there is an optimum length of carbon molecules involved. https://www.chemistryworld.com/features/is-synthetic-petroleum-the-missing-link-in-the-route-to-net-zero/4015785.article
I'm not sure if a gallon of synthetic oils is heavier than a gallon of mineral oil - I suspect it might be marginally denser.
When Mobil1 was being developed they had a problem with the sulphur build up in engine oils over a certain mileage due to acid build up - the solution was to add micronised chalk to neutralise the acid.
Aside from the base oil starting point most mineral & synthetic oils contain very similar additatives when they reach the oil can.
Update - Diesel oil contains a lot more detergent to keep the carbon in suspension - hence why Shell Rotella turns jet black within a few miles after an oil change.
Ted,
I thought the same as you about glazed bores and couldn't understand what difference oil spec would make, but apparently semi synthetic or fully synthetic is not recommended for running in newly re-bored engines in our older 1970's bikes and cars.
It's too slippery and won't let the rings and bores initially bed in properly.
Many moons ago the Norton guru Mick Hemmings warned me about that when I picked up my new pistons and newly rebored Commando cylinders, also warned me not to let it idle after starting for the first time but to blip the throttle to help prevent glazed bores.
Penrite amongst others do running in oil.
Running In Oil has a High Zinc formulation to protect the valve train including camshafts, followers, rockers and pushrods. It allows the piston rings to bed in correctly with the cylinder walls, preventing glazing of the bores and it can be used for both dynamometer and normal road run in procedures
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10w40 mineral motorbike oil is hard to find now, I and many other CBX 1000 owners use Valvoline 20w50 VR1 Racing mineral oil, however the original spec was a 10w40 oil same as the 550 and just about every other Honda at the time. There was just oil no special motorbike oil back in the day and I always used Castro GTX.
The problem with the CBX and Semisynthetic oil is the clutch which can tend to slip, however if the friction plates are changed to a more modern material then the problem goes, so some owners do now use semisynthetic oil with seemingly no problem.
A problem with a part synthetic oil could be bore glazing on a lightly used classic bike engine, I see a simple answer to that, Don’t Ride like a Pussy, they like a bit of a thrash😄
I know this answer isnt SOHC specific but I think the same thing with engine oil apply to most classic Hondas.
Good post and sound advice IMHO.
Cheers
Skoti