Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: Ken4004 on November 05, 2024, 06:18:11 PM
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When I originally stripped my engine down and had it vapour blasted I made the decision not to paint it because the finish was so good.
My reasoning for this was due to the fact that during the vapour blasting the surface gets bombarded with the particles and hardens the surface , my I tension is to treat it with AC 50 to be on the safe side.
Let me know your thoughts on the subject, worst case scenario the engine will have to come out and get sprayed .
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If you are going to use it regularly and depending on where it's stored when not in use, oxidation sets in quite quickly and it looks bloody awful. It's very easy to keep a painted engine clean, just a bucket of hot soapy water, job done.
Use Simoniz SIMVHT31D, it's a perfect match to original.
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Aluminium does not resist oxidation very well, even if you do not expose it to the salt on our roads it also reacts with acid rain not helped by the heat cycles of an engine. AC50 probably works to slow down the corrosion but it will dull so TBH I'm with Julie paint it like it was originally - Mr Honda knew what he was doing.
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Ok thanks I’ll look into a paint job once I have got it running I’ll add the job to the long list all part of the learning curve.Not too bad to strip the engine down once you have done it before .
I found it very interesting especially the gear change mechanism form memory there were about 40 parts to it so too lots of photos while I took it apart.
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You can paint it as a complete engine, the problem would be not being able to heat cure the casings, block & head would be fine. There are some engine paints that will become petrol proof without the heating process. My BiL did his engine on a Fireblade with a US sourced block enamel.
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I wonder if running the engine for a short time will cure the paint food for thought,
It sounds like a lot of hassle but I don’t really mind taking the engine out again if that’s what it needs.
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I wonder if running the engine for a short time will cure the paint food for thought,
It sounds like a lot of hassle but I don’t really mind taking the engine out again if that’s what it needs.
It may cure the head and barrels after a while but it won't cure the crank cases as they don't get hot enough.
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I've left the head on my main rider 500 unpainted for 20 years and never had any oxidation and it cleans up fine and no worries of flaky paint. But always painted the cases.
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Spray can paint unless it's a 2k mix never fully cures! It dries via evaporation of the solvent . Putting the Cases in the oven to "cure" is a waste of time and energy. It does not make the paint any more durable or chemically resistant. If you want a paint that will withstand time and chemically resistant use an Epoxy or a 2 part paint with a catalyzed property
These paints cure via chemical reaction and are durable for the long haul.
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Spray can paint unless it's a 2k mix never fully cures! It dries via evaporation of the solvent . Putting the Cases in the oven to "cure" is a waste of time and energy. It does not make the paint any more durable or chemically resistant. If you want a paint that will withstand time and chemically resistant use an Epoxy or a 2 part paint with a catalyzed property
These paints cure via chemical reaction and are durable for the long haul.
Through lots of personal experience, I would dispute most of what you have said. The Simoniz engine enamel (SIMVHT31D) is very hard wearing, retains it colour and finish well, it's easy to keep clean. It is highly fuel and chemical resistant but, if you have a continual fuel leak on it, fix the leak before it damages the paint. Follow the instructions on the can and it's perfect.
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Spray can paint unless it's a 2k mix never fully cures! It dries via evaporation of the solvent . Putting the Cases in the oven to "cure" is a waste of time and energy. It does not make the paint any more durable or chemically resistant. If you want a paint that will withstand time and chemically resistant use an Epoxy or a 2 part paint with a catalyzed property
These paints cure via chemical reaction and are durable for the long haul.
Through lots of personal experience, I would dispute most of what you have said. The Simoniz engine enamel (SIMVHT31D) is very hard wearing, retains it colour and finish well, it's easy to keep clean. It is highly fuel and chemical resistant but, if you have a continual fuel leak on it, fix the leak before it damages the paint. Follow the instructions on the can and it's perfect.
It's not my opinion . It's Science.
Spray can paint is just pigment lying on the surface
The. Original honda case paint was some type of epoxy. Fuel can be on it forever and it does not lift. It will discolor a bit.
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Spray can paint unless it's a 2k mix never fully cures! It dries via evaporation of the solvent . Putting the Cases in the oven to "cure" is a waste of time and energy. It does not make the paint any more durable or chemically resistant. If you want a paint that will withstand time and chemically resistant use an Epoxy or a 2 part paint with a catalyzed property
These paints cure via chemical reaction and are durable for the long haul.
Simonize VHT is an Enamel paint, heat curing at the specified levels drives out all the solvent so I disagree with your wide ranging conclusion.
You could argue that if your 2 part paint is not a 100% eutectic mixture the catalyst action might fail. There are enamel engine block paints that will self cure over time without the need for oven baking to make them petrol proof.
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Spray can paint unless it's a 2k mix never fully cures! It dries via evaporation of the solvent . Putting the Cases in the oven to "cure" is a waste of time and energy. It does not make the paint any more durable or chemically resistant. If you want a paint that will withstand time and chemically resistant use an Epoxy or a 2 part paint with a catalyzed property
These paints cure via chemical reaction and are durable for the long haul.
Simonize VHT is an Enamel paint, heat curing at the specified levels drives out all the solvent so I disagree with your wide ranging conclusion.
You could argue that if your 2 part paint is not a 100% eutectic mixture the catalyst action might fail. There are enamel engine block paints that will self cure over time without the need for oven baking to make them petrol proof.
99% of the solvent s flash off in 24 hours naturally.
I can guarantee you this paint if left out in the elements will oxidized and degrade within 5 years if left out in the elements. And drop some acetone on it and it will immediately dissolve..
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They have been using water as the solvent base on car body paint for quite a few years now, I've never had diesel or petrol strip the paint off when fueling as the paints are oven dried at the factory.
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Spray can paint unless it's a 2k mix never fully cures! It dries via evaporation of the solvent . Putting the Cases in the oven to "cure" is a waste of time and energy. It does not make the paint any more durable or chemically resistant. If you want a paint that will withstand time and chemically resistant use an Epoxy or a 2 part paint with a catalyzed property
These paints cure via chemical reaction and are durable for the long haul.
Simonize VHT is an Enamel paint, heat curing at the specified levels drives out all the solvent so I disagree with your wide ranging conclusion.
You could argue that if your 2 part paint is not a 100% eutectic mixture the catalyst action might fail. There are enamel engine block paints that will self cure over time without the need for oven baking to make them petrol proof.
99% of the solvent s flash off in 24 hours naturally.
I can guarantee you this paint if left out in the elements will oxidized and degrade within 5 years if left out in the elements. And drop some acetone on it and it will immediately dissolve..
There is no worse storage for bikes than a typical UK brick built garage in the winter, the Simoniz stays perfect and shows no sign of oxidation after many years. As for acetone, why would you get that near any paint, that's just asking for trouble, the same as if you dropped battery acid on paint?
The main point is that a good quality enamel paint out of a spray can gives an excellent finish and is very user friendly for the DIY'er, which most are on this forum.
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They have been using water as the solvent base on car body paint for quite a few years now, I've never had diesel or petrol strip the paint off when fueling as the paints are oven dried at the fact
ory.
Water borne paints are catalyzed
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Do you know the chemical name of the Catalyst they use?
Is it not likely that the same or a similar catalyst is used in Simonize Engine Enamel?
https://www.simoniz.uk/products/engine-enamel/
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This is an interesting background to the complexity of paint technology, I will not even go down the route of what surfactants do as I have never fully understood them.
.https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/The_Chemistry_of_Paint
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Spray can paint unless it's a 2k mix never fully cures! It dries via evaporation of the solvent . Putting the Cases in the oven to "cure" is a waste of time and energy. It does not make the paint any more durable or chemically resistant. If you want a paint that will withstand time and chemically resistant use an Epoxy or a 2 part paint with a catalyzed property
These paints cure via chemical reaction and are durable for the long haul.
Simonize VHT is an Enamel paint, heat curing at the specified levels drives out all the solvent so I disagree with your wide ranging conclusion.
You could argue that if your 2 part paint is not a 100% eutectic mixture the catalyst action might fail. There are enamel engine block paints that will self cure over time without the need for oven baking to make them petrol proof.
99% of the solvent s flash off in 24 hours naturally.
I can guarantee you this paint if left out in the elements will oxidized and degrade within 5 years if left out in the elements. And drop some acetone on it and it will immediately dissolve..
There is no worse storage for bikes than a typical UK brick built garage in the winter, the Simoniz stays perfect and shows no sign of oxidation after many years. As for acetone, why would you get that near any paint, that's just asking for trouble, the same as if you dropped battery acid on paint?
The main point is that a good quality enamel paint out of a spray can gives an excellent finish and is very user friendly for the DIY'er, which most are on this forum.
I was just using acetone as an example.
I totally agree with you about us DIY'ers. As with most of our bikes not are used for fair weather riding and poop cams are the way to go.
But the baking in the oven adds nothing.
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Do you know the chemical name of the Catalyst they use?
Is it not likely that the same or a similar catalyst is used in Sinonize Engine Enamel?
https://www.simoniz.uk/products/engine-enamel/
Isosyanide
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Do you know the chemical name of the Catalyst they use?
Is it not likely that the same or a similar catalyst is used in Sinonize Engine Enamel?
https://www.simoniz.uk/products/engine-enamel/
Isosyanide
Isocyanate
Simoniz Engine enamel is 1k system and doesn't have a curing agent in it.
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The baking in the oven you say does nothing I disagree, why does the manufacturer specify the oven cure then?
On some US block paints there is an option to heat cure or air dry, the difference is about 3-4 months above a certain minimum room temperature.
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Maybe to clarify my point about types of paint. i will use different words to explain my point. lets use Hardness and cure.
ill compare it to Asphalt and Cement.
Any paint that comes out of spray can less The 2K types, are like Asphalt . re-introduce a petroleum product to it (oil, gas, etc) and it will return to a fluid state. This paint dries to the touch in an hour and is 99% cured or hardened in 24 hours when all the solvent evaporates. It never gets any Harder. Only the 1%. It has zero defense against oxidizing and degradation from the elements. If you are OK with a 5-10 year life use this kind of paint. Honda did not!
A paint that is 2 parts and hardens with a catalyst is like Cement. It hardens due to a chemical reaction and lime is the catalyst. you can pour water,oil, gas on in and it will not affect it .
This isn't just my thoughts or theories. This is Science. I have been in the painting business a long time.
The entire industrial world uses catalyzed paint on just about everything. Bridges,Buildings, light equipment, heavy equipment,cars,bikes,spaceships airplanes. The list could go on forever. They are not using any paint that is drying via evaporation for very good reasons! Longevity and durability.
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I restored a Matchless G3 about 25 year ago I painted the entire bike with an old fashioned enamel paint. The tickler regularly sticks in the Amal carb and before you know it the petrol is pouring from the carb onto the cover covering the engine plates. It is unmarked as yet I am glad to say.
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I'm convinced that the Simoniz is the way to go but I've a couple of questions-
Is it difficult to get into all the cooling fins/channels? There's lots especially in the cylinder head
How many tins for a complete engine?
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I'm convinced that the Simoniz is the way to go but I've a couple of questions-
Is it difficult to get into all the cooling fins/channels? There's lots especially in the cylinder head
How many tins for a complete engine?
2 cans for a complete engine as 3 light coats are needed and it's pretty easy getting in between the fins.
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I'm convinced that the Simoniz is the way to go but I've a couple of questions-
Is it difficult to get into all the cooling fins/channels? There's lots especially in the cylinder head
How many tins for a complete engine?
I used a small paint brush and painted into the deep part of the fins first using some aerosol paint sprayed into a container. If you then use the spray afterwards it avoids having too much paint building up on the outer edge of the fins.
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I'm convinced that the Simoniz is the way to go but I've a couple of questions-
Is it difficult to get into all the cooling fins/channels? There's lots especially in the cylinder head
How many tins for a complete engine?
I used a small paint brush and painted into the deep part of the fins first using some aerosol paint sprayed into a container. If you then use the spray afterwards it avoids having too much paint building up on the outer edge of the fins.
Aye Ted,
I done the same as you, but used Dupli Color Supertherm, just painted all the cylinder fins with a small touch up brush.
https://www.colorshop.cz/en/sprays/dupli-color-supertherm-heat-resistant-paint-800-c-silver-spray-150ml/ (https://www.colorshop.cz/en/sprays/dupli-color-supertherm-heat-resistant-paint-800-c-silver-spray-150ml/)
It's good stuff and didn't leave brush marks.