Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: Laverda Dave on November 30, 2024, 11:03:11 PM
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Another project arrived in the man cave yesterday.
An old mate from work got in touch to ask if I could re-commission his Honda TL125S. He was given the bike by a mate of his a few years ago as a partially restored bike. Apparently it has a 150cc kit fitted. The photo of the bike makes it look pretty good but it is a bit rough around the edges.
The fuel tank is thick with rust internally, I will try some DEOX-C but I’m not very hopeful in this instance and I might have to resort to the loose nut method of shaking it prior to the DEOX treatment. Externally the tank is scabby in places and the decals are lifting. The frame paint isn’t great either; I think it has been hand painted as some point.
The rear chain cover (cast alloy) has a very nasty crack that will require welding. The internal web is also missing making me think it has suffered a final drive chain break at some point.
The rear tail light is also aftermarket, not sure what it is from, it looks ok but I think the genuine Honda item would look better.
The rear indicators and brackets are also missing, the front indicators are pointed and not the usual flat Stanley type so I will need to find a pair of these.
The worst part is the wiring loom, it is disconnected and very brittle with the usual bodgery showing so I’ll see if I can find one in better condition as they appear to be unobtainable new or pattern.
There are plenty of small minor things also missing; the spring for the l/h footrest is missing as is the rear brake switch spring. There is also cracking to the sidewalls of both tires and there was less than ½ litre of engine oil when I drained it. The seat cover has a rip on the edge of the seat pan and the seat mounting bracket fixing bolt has snapped off meaning the seat cover will need removing to fit a new bolt from inside. There are plenty of rounded nuts and bolts whilst the engine is held together using hex head socket bolts.
Good points, the wheels look original as are the handlebars and it has a genuine Honda exhaust although it does have a huge, thick alloy exhaust flange and I’m not sure if this was an aftermarket item.
The upshot is the owner has asked me to fully restore the bike so the strip down has commenced. More to follow as the restoration progresses.
If anyone has any advice on these bikes (was a 150cc conversion a period thing?) or spare parts please let me know.
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Excellent project Dave. Doesn't seem challenging enough for you compared to ratty!
Even though you say the photos don't show rough bits it looks loads better than most of these you see.
Road gear like speedo and lights not commonly present.
The alloy sprocket cover is like rocking horse dodo. A guy is selling repro items on ebay at about £150. They don't look very good.
150cc conversion very popular then and now. Any bigger and liner walls paper thin. They do take them out to 180 ish but new liner and crankcase opening needs widening.
The fact the pipe is in good nick is a bonus. Very rare although reproduction system available they are a New Zealand import and about £800!
If both sidepanels are like the one shown that looks good that is a result too. They are available as reproduction but only for the earlier K model, not the S as yours.
Chainguard looks tidy but not standard.
If you are looking at parts many common ones on the CT125 we never had here.
Looks like a fun project and something different to follow.
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I think the rear light should be same as 500 and 750(not the big F one) as to the rest always work looking up parts on cms and checking Silvers, he does get some odd stock
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Thanks for the heads up Tim and Bryan.
I’ve been looking at the DSS site; he has a few items although mostly service type parts with a few obscure gears etc. CMSNL have a few parts.....at a price!
The side panel lug on one side is broken, the owner has the broken part and I will see if I can repair it using a dowel or something, I know once broken off these have a habit of being very difficult to repair properly due to the strain when pulling the cover off.
I will take the chain guard to the alloy welder I know and see what he can do, I can always dress it once welded. I will need to make up a replacement piece at the back where it was broken off by a chain trying to escape the sprocket.
I feel I will have to repair the wiring where it’s been bodged (I’ll give it a wash in the dishwasher first).
Can you tell me if the seat cover is supposed to be ribbed or is it plain? I have seen replacement covers but they have ribs, the cover on there now (not genuine) is plain. Should the cover also have a HONDA stencil on the back?
Should the left hand footrest be sprung, the one on the right is?
Gear lever, should this be chrome plated or painted, this one is rusty.
As for the fuel tank, oh dear, it’s going to be a challenge for sure, I have never seen a tank so rusty inside as this one is, the rust flakes are loose!
Whilst it is nice to work on something a bit different this has already escalated from a basic re-commission to a restoration. Whilst the owner doesn’t want to spend more than it is worth he wants to hand it down to his son. Whilst I’m restoring this for free and as something to keep me busy over the winter it’s still going to be very difficult to keep costs down when you get into painting frames, new tank and panel paint and decals, vapour blasting and painting engine cases, full gasket and seal set, countless special sized O-Rings etc. The parts and services I can see running into £000’s.
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Dave,
There is a Facebook Group for the TL125, might help you.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/tl125/?locale=en_GB
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And a website.
https://www.hondatl125.com/
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Thanks Deanno. I don't do Faceache but the TL125 website is a goldmine of info. Thanks for the tip👍.
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Dave for what its worth and faded memories of mine, gear lever definitely chrome. Seat I had in mind as ribbed lengthwise. Images accompanying from Facebook site and one sketch from CMS site seem to confirm that. Also Honda lettering...
Maybe look at CMS re footpeg spring.
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Thanks Tim. I'll have to see if I can get a repro cover👍.
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Does anyone happen to know the thread size required to pull the alternator rotor off the crank please?
My puller for the 400/4 is way too big. I'm sure I've read a thread on the forum somewhere about using a certain pitch bolt but I cannot find it using the search facility.
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Not off hand mate but im sure its one ofvthevfour legs on a honda pullrt
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I have a couple of three leg pullers Bryan. They are not Honda items but I'll try one of the threads and hopefully it will fit......
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Try looking at cmsnl parts list sometimes they have the special tools listed at the front and the part number should give you size
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I have a couple of three leg pullers Bryan. They are not Honda items but I'll try one of the threads and hopefully it will fit......
Car wheel bolts are often available in this size area and pitch. Just don't get caught borrowing one out of a neighbour's car to try it ;D ;D do that at night ;D
Also, coppaslip or similar on threads (rotor or puller) exerts significantly more load onto the item to be pulled than dry threads do when you tighten them.
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Looking at the parts list it looks to me like the coils are in the outer cover and the rotor is a permag hollow one, if so any "legged" puller will probably damage it.
It may be an 18mm or 16 mm thread but use a HT bolt as it will need to be done up really tight.
The 4 legged Honda puller is a cross with a different thread on each leg, i have one but you are a bit far away.
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Looking at the parts list it looks to me like the coils are in the outer cover and the rotor is a permag hollow one, if so any "legged" puller will probably damage it.
It may be an 18mm or 16 mm thread but use a HT bolt as it will need to be done up really tight.
The 4 legged Honda puller is a cross with a different thread on each leg, i have one but you are a bit far away.
Here ya go £16. Would say I would have it off you when done but I have the 4 legged one already.
Also they do a clutch nut too if you don't have one suitable.
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Dave,
Probably too late but attached is the section on the puller tool from the Honda Common Tool Manual.
I scanned the full manual for Ash quite some time ago so may be in the archive as well.
Hope you've got it sorted or if not that this may help.
Cheers,
Andy[attach=1]
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[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3][attach=4]
Here are the pages in image form - linked to pdf in last post so probably doesn't work (must get a grip of all this IT stuff one day!).
Cheers,
Andy
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Thanks for all the advice on the puller. I'll try a 14x1.25 pitch bolt high tensile bolt first and if that doesn't work I'll get a proper puller. The £16 price looks to be a bargain until the VAT & Post is added knocking it up to £26! If it were my bike I'd buy the tool but chances are it will be used once only, the owner of the bike is extremely unlikely to ever use it hence the bolt first option.
The engine is now out of the frame and on the bench ready for a full strip after crimbo (or between crimbo and new year depending on the mince pie and quality street situation 😋).
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That looks an interesting challenge Dave, I look forward to seeing your progress 👍👍👍
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Dave,
Is it 1.25 - the Honda tool seems to show maybe 1.5 pitch.
If any help I can see if I've got any fiches for the TL125 in the pile in the garage - haven't used any or the scanner for a while but may still work with a bit of persuasion.
Cheers,
Andy
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Thanks Andy.
Thankfully you won't need to fire up the microfiche for this one as the owner has supplied both the parts book and the full manual but thanks for the offer 👍.
I see what you mean about the thread pitch with the Honda manual stating both pitch sizes. The part offered by Honda Classics doesn't state the pitch. I'll have another look at what I need and will probably by a 14 x 1.5 and a 14 x 1.25 pitch bolt as they will always come in handy.
I'm in the middle of fabricating the missing cable and other brackets at the moment, very therapeutic as pulling and pushing at the moment is really painful considering I have apparently torn three tendons in my shoulder (rotator cuff accord to my GP) and I have no idea how I did it!
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Hi Just seen your post,
I had a TL125 trials bike back in the day which I did use in competitive trials for a short time. As trials bike it was ok and reliable but did lack a bit of pick up and instant power for coming out of say a very tight slow turn straight into a steep climb or jumping up a rock ledge. I did get a Sammy Miller 150cc conversion for mine and had it bored out. The kit also included a more straight through exhaust, which did away with the large triangular box type silencer fitted as standard. The bike was better as a 150 but still a bit underpowered for me, I am sure a better rider could of course done better on it than me. For the Sammy Miller kits I seem to remember that a standard piston from another Honda was used. A lot of the bikes that were used in trials were bored to 150cc or even a bit more. The cylinder liner was a bit thin at 150 though.
In its 150cc form the bike was nice on the road and had a nice thumpy 4 stroke single feel and sound when accelerating.
That exhaust flange is not a standard thing.
Mine was not fitted with any lights or indicators, though I do believe there was a lighting kit for it.
Good luck with the rebuild.
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Thanks for your comments Murf. It does appear very few of these bikes have the lighting kit still fitted making it impossible to find any replacements. If you have any photos of your old bike especially of the back it would help me to fabricate some of the brackets that have been cut off the one in my garage :). If you have any parts for the old girl lurking away in a damp cardboard box in the garage or up in the loft that you'd like to sell off please let me know (I know its a long, long, long shot after all these years but worth asking anyway :))
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A bit of painfully slow progress to report.
I had to halt the strip down of the bike following the engine removal because the more I stripped it down the more Items I found were missing, bent or damaged. The frame has been de-lugged all over including the tool box, rear indicators, ignition barrel holder, helmet lock etc. Also missing were all the cable guides on the front forks. The front brake cable has been rubbing on the tire with the outer casing being rubbed down to the metal inner casing.
In view of the above and it being impossible to find replacement cable guides I have made them using the still available (pattern) inner cable guides. I studied the parts book and photos and from these I scaled up the images to work out where they should fit and the sizes. I had to make three in total, 2 x front brake cable and 1 x throttle cable guides. The same applied to the front reflector brackets that were also missing. I made them from cardboard first and once happy I made them from some 1.2mm metal sheet. I am assembling all of the brackets to the bike as a dry build to make sure everything is where it should be and doing what it should without fouling anything.
I still have the ignition barrel bracket and the rear indicator brackets to make. The front headlamp /indicator stay I purchased from eBay in France arrived and of course it isn’t a TL part as advertised but off something else! I need to modify this (it has already been previously modified by a PO) to make it fit properly and to cut off and make a new bridge piece for the horn mounting. Once all the missing brackets are all made I’ll finish stripping the frame down and get it checked for alignment. I will get the cable brackets chrome plated and everything else can go off for powder coating with the frame.
I still need to find a suitable headlight shell as the Honda part is unavailable. The headlight itself I can get a pattern replacement but the only shell I have seen has the appearance of a boiled egg with its head smashed in! I have found a l/h handlebar switch, it is used, in Germany and costs an eye-watering £214, I’ll look around for a pattern or near to it part as it is not my bike but a mate’s and he’s not going to want to spend that kind of money on a s/h switch (err.... I would though :o).
I checked the rear sprocket whilst I was in stripping down mode; I think a shark would be proud of teeth like these, another part that will be going into the scrap bin!
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Nice going Dave, love your attention to detail.
Re switch, see link below. These a very close to original but have more functions. Leccy start etc. Dirt cheap. I've bought a set as nothing to loose. Plastic bodies but even so, a nice weighty feel. Not looked any deeper at quality. From what I remember, master on off control on right bar and dip / indicators on the left. Is that correct in the flesh?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/387718872581?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QYbagBvSTI-&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=Wwl4JSf7QJi&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
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Hi Tim.
Thanks for you kind comments, its turning into a labour of love (or agnst!) depending on the day ;).
I can send you the patterns to make the cable and refelctor brackets if you need them, let me know.
Yep, I looked at those switches and as you say dirt cheap and I'd rather try these than pay over £250 for a s/h part from Germany that may or may not work (the TL headlight bracket I bought from ebay France wasn't as advertised and I had to pay more #@%$ tax on it when I collected it from the post office >:().
The only issue I can see with these apart from the additional functions that are not need are the cable colours and the block connectors. I'd have to modify these with bullet connectors to suit.
I have been looking at these as an alternative, they look more the part and again are as cheap as chips;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276242885682?_skw=HONDA+HANDLBAR+SWITCH+FOR+TL125&itmmeta=01JGY8BKYNWMJWN1JERKPWBDDH&hash=item40515bec32:g:Oo0AAOSwUDRlQyMV&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABAHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKnrkUJG9NQKq7%2FH6F6ViBsT4CwXJv5tyQnbu6l6Eo%2FcSh%2B1QS%2BrrL5lkXo1yvlN8LACZoQNuIu%2FUoX0JPhfjhiRvbnD42BVeBByuMgjVcktV5y%2Bf0pMFf%2FmCnag%2BIf0dFGw%2FGL9oVCDyyeqm8D5g%2F%2B42UqHlcDQdgrRGvAKfaeFnQ%2B%2BK459HWeRXSoARTwAQojc1kq0sqWLvDvkpiJmApVjIfTJM71M1Xy%2BucyP0DGkXQ5jVzs14sZgTx4EJR8W1jfyZHGPVma4ms%2BrDH%2F3YV%2Bu%2FQ30eN20pWa25sFCiNlsIvWv0iFjxqF99h03QlHNOVU%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMwr-uyIdl
I have contacted my mate and given him the details of the s/h switch and will let him decide, it's his money although I'd be happy to spend it for him ;).
On another slightly different TL subject.......Does your bike still have the rear indicator brackets welded to the frame on the rear loop? The ones on my bike have been cut off. If your bike does have the brackets would it be possible for you to take a photo of it please? I know the indicators themselves have the normal 'U' shaped bracket with the internal rubber cushion fitted and these mount to the bracket. I'm just a bit stuck of how the bracket should look (I assume it is 'L' shaped), It's size as in dimensions and where it should fit on the loop (measurement from the upper rear shock mount). If your bike still has these brackets fitted it would be a godsend if you are able to supply some measurements. The good news is the U bracket and cusion is available as a pattern part from CSMNL (at a cost and DSS dont stock them).
Cheers
Dave
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No problems re rear bracket info for indicators. May get a chance tomorrow and will PM info.
Yes please on the patterns.
Has your front light bracket got the rubber mounts where it sits into the lower yoke? If not let me know as seemed unobtainable but I located some totally by chance in my Japan Buyee searches.
I recon that switch you have seen is the same as I've got. Image in the link I sent has left and right swapped round... I'll take some pictures of mine including cabling etc.
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Thanks Tim and No, the bracket I have doesn't have the lower rubbers so if you can get a couple from your source that would be good. Let me know the details and I'll pay via PayPal F&F if ok with you.
I'll send the patterns, I'll draw them up and send these rather then the cardboard paterns. That will be the cable guides and the front reflector mounts. Send me a PM with your address and I'll get them drawn up.
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I took a break from bracket making whilst I wait for some rubber cushions from HGB to determine the hole size required to make the ignition bracket.
In the meantime I decided to strip the engine and give the various components a good clean in the (freezing cold) parts washer. Getting into the engine was difficult due to the butchered heads on the engine screws, I had to drill a couple out after penetrating oil and lots of heat failed.
Once into the engine all was not good, the cam chain had done an amazing impression of a chain saw on the left hand crankcase eating away at the alloy and only prevented doing more damage due to the edge of the main bearing being in the way! The cam chain tension was on its maximum adjustment. Once out the deflection on the cam chain was in the region of 25mm, fair to say its toast! The cam chain drive wheel on the end of the crankshaft is so badly worn I am surprised the chain actually stayed on it! This appears to be an interference fit on the crank as I cannot see any keyway or other form of retention so hopefully it will pull off with a bit of heat and a puller? Has anyone changed one of these, I notice they are still available from CSMNL.
As thought the engine has been taken out to 150cc. The liner is like a knife edge at the spigot, what a shame whoever did the re-bore didn’t bore it straight :-\. One edge of the liner is thicker than the other. There is also a barrel fin waiting to drop off due to a crack so this and the state of the bore make me think I need to look out for another barrel and start afresh. There is someone on eBay who sells 150cc barrels but these are from Chinese Keyway engines and are square finned and would look a bit odd on a 1976 TL engine :(. If anyone has a cylinder lying around they’d like to sell please let me know.
I discoverd a nice selection of bolts holding the clutch pressure plate on, all of various lengths :o. It is obvious a final drive chain has failed in a big way previously looking at the state of the engine casing (and the sproket cover has a huge crack right across it).
Next task is to remove the engine dowels and finish scraping the gaskets off that have been stuck on with what looks likes cement! I will drift out the gearbox bearings although one of these is a blind bearing so I’m not sure how I’ll deal with getting that one out, look on YouTube maybe? Once the cases are empty I will loosely reassemble, fit it back in the frame and take the frame, swing arm and rear wheel to be alignment checked, I bet the frame is bent ::)
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Makes me sweat the thought of all that things to sort Dave. Says a lot about previous owner/s that clutch bolts!😳
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I think i have a spare cb550 liner knocking about if you think it may fit mate
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Some of these old engines have really been abused by incompetent idiots. It's amazing that they keep running at all.
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Some more progress to report over the past few days.
Thanks to Bryan, Rozabikes Tim and Ash for all the very helpful advice over the past few weeks with leads etc.
I have located a s/h barrel on the still standard but rusty bore to replace the existing barrel that had been taken out to 150cc and that I found was marked and scored (photos). I don’t know if the engine had suffered a partial seizure at some point but there was only ½ litre of very thick grey oil in the sump. There are certainly some strange marks on the liner and vertical scoring. On Tim’s advice I’m going to take the bore out to 138cc using a CB550+1mm oversize piston as 150cc will leave very little liner left. I will locate a 550 genuine Honda piston and rings if I can before sending to Bryan.
Next up was removing the cam chain sprocket on the crankshaft that was so badly worn I am surprised the chain didn’t jump off :o. I had to modify my 100mm three legged puller with a big file to fit behind the sprocket and applied heat, nothing, it wouldn’t move. I didn’t want to apply too much heat as I was concerned about potentially damaging any heat treatment applied to the crank at manufacture. I then tried a split bearing puller without any success and the lip was too thick to go under the sprocket. The dremmel then made an appearance and I very, very carefully cut a slot in the sprocket and after a while I heard a pleasing snap when the sprocket let go and I was able to pull it off with the three legged puller. No damage at all was done to the crankshaft, not a mark on it :)
Now, I assume I am going to need to put the crank in the freezer and the new sprocket in the over at 200c when it comes to fitting the new one and tap it home with a suitable drift. Has anyone done this before?
Off to Kempton Park tomorrow for a rummage.
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I forgot to add the photos of the old 150cc barrel!
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You would have thought the puller would have taken that Dave, quite a big boss on that sprocket giving it a big area to grip I guess. Nice work getting that off.
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The engine is now fully stripped, cleaned and measured with more horrors being revealed. A shim was missing on the mainshaft and this appears to have allowed the shaft to drift leaving marks on the crankcase. A washer had been placed behind the countershaft shim pushing the shaft to the right. I don’t know if the above are connected but the teeth on the idle starter gear are completly chewed up.
Moving to the oil pump and something big has passed through the rotors leaving these and the main body casting mangled (technical term) as well. I am surprised there was any oil pressure at all in the engine considering the state of the pump. Surprisingly though the main bearings are fine as are the rest of the gears, these engines were built to be abused! Upon taking the alternator cover off I notice a small 'dink' in the case. When I removed the coils the dink turned out to be a crack. considering this is oil filled I will have to get it welded.
So far the engine parts needed are, new piston and rings (CB550+1mm to give 138cc), new barrel (I managed to get one of these on eBay) cam chain, crankshaft end sprocket, Kickstart idler gear, shims, three ball bearing races, complete oil pump.
I’m back on to making more of the missing brackets today and hopefully I’ll be taking the frame off to be alignment checked in the next week or two.
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Aye Dave,
I seem to remember the early TL125's having problems with broken kick start gears.
Which meant splitting the crankcases to repair them.
But yours appears to be the later engine with the detachable cam cover on the head, which allegedly had the kick start problem solved.
Maybe some others can remember doing this work as well back then?
Anyhow we sold many of those bikes to local farmers before the quad days.
Great wee machines, good luck with the resto.
Skoti
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This any use to you Dave, seems cheap enough.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1215949232?iid=134482012557&fitmentTarget=Make%3AHonda%7CModel%3ATL
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Thanks for the heads up Ken.
I'm not sure if that set would suit the 'S' model with what is called the split head. I'm also looking at going out to 138cc (hence the 550+1mm piston. I'm still investigating what head gasket I need to use with the 138cc as a 150 will likely be to big and the 125 probably to small although I understand the 550 piston is flat topped (you probably know better than I do as you build 550 engines in your sleep!).
It's a shame though with that set being a genuine Honda set.
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Yeah, looks to be different.
I've found 3x1.00mm over 550 pistons today Dave, they are not genuine by the look of them. Plus all of them have scoring marks down the side of the piston top down to the top ring groove, like something went down there at some point. Some are worse than others, they are flat topped BTW, same as the 500. What size would a standard 550 piston come out at?
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I've just read this whole thread again Dave, I salute your persistence in getting this far.
I would certainly have trouble sleeping at night trying to work out how to get past the obstacles you have encountered so far, only one word fits, respect Dave.👍👍👍
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Without being silly i think your best bet is to make sure you can get all the bits for the bottom end BEFORE worrying about piston and bore 0.5 mm o/s 550 is 3mm o/s for 500
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Thanks for the advice all.
I think I'm going to go with a standard 125cc especially considering this isn't my bike but a mates and he wants me to fit all the road kit (indicators etc) and as he's the same age as me (63) it's doubtful if he's going to go off roading. I've also discovered the big bore kits are marked as NOT suitable for road use, they are intended for trials riding where short bursts of high revs can be tolerated.
I'm playing safe with this one!
I would also think (hope) it will be a lot easier to get a genuine Honda oversized piston and rings for a standard 125.
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Dont buy a 0.25 till the bore has been done as i am finding a lot of 500/550 need to go to 0.5 as the liners have "barrelled" enough to not clean at 0.25.
You can have it done to a bit undersize then honed to fit piston
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Ok Bryan.
Once the frame has been alignment checked (I've put the bare engine cases back into the frame to enable that to be checked properly) I'll be taking the cases for vapour blasting. Once back I will send the barrel up to you for the rebore but I won't buy the piston until you have measured it. The s/h barrel is rusty and I have no idea what the existing bore size is as it didn't come with the piston.
Just come back indoors to make a brew before venturing out to make more missing brackets!
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No problem mate, i am away for a week in April so pm me when ready and we will work out a date
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Hi All.
It’s been a while since I updated this thread; the trials of life have intervened over the last few weeks!
I took the frame for the alignment check as although it looked straight by eye I had a feeling it probably wasn’t! Considering the bike is nearly 50 years old and the full history is unknown to me it makes sense to have the frame checked before spending a shed load of money on it only to find it wobbles all over the road despite looking (hopefully.....) in pristine condition.
My concerns was proven to be correct, the frame was twisted at the headstock and required Howard's magical touch (and hydraulic rams) at Hybrid Motorcycles in Croxley Green to straighten it.
This is the reason I always have a frame checked before painting and rebuilding, for the sake of £100 its just not worth the risk. I have only ever had one frame that was found to be in perfect alighment when checked and that was the Flying Banana (aka the Rat Bike) and the reason for that was because it had likely been checked at some time in the past and tweaked.
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Fancy bit of kit Dave. Was it a do it while you wait job then with you having the pictures?
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No Tim. I booked it in with Howard as I wanted him to alloy weld the damaged sprocket and stator covers as well as welding the new brackets I'd made and tack welded into position. My first attempts at mig welding were, err, laughable 😂😂
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Yet more progress!
I have completed making all the missing brackets including the ignition switch, rear indicators, headlight frame bridge, front reflectors, toolbox mounting and helmet lock mounting. I attempted to mig weld them to the frame with my brand new mig welder and very limited skill set. Fair to say I could just about tack weld the brackets into position on the frame ready for an expert (Howard at Hybrid Motorcycles) to weld them on properly! There were a few other damaged mounting studs on the airbox and seat pan that I also attended to.
I took the frame and the 22 other parts for powder coating last week and I got a call today to say they were completed so I collected them this morning and on the way I dropped the engine cases in for vapour blasting and painting. I spent a good few hours with various files and grit paper on smoothing and blending the welded repairs on the sprocket and stator casing. There were a few pin hole inclusions in the welded areas and I filled these with metal putty. These will be painted so hopefully the repairs will be invisible.
Next item on the agenda is to get the various nuts and bolts etc ready for BZP and to check the fork stanchions for straightness.
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More progress photos
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Oh, I would so polish them ;D ;D ;D
If you have those abrasive discs (for the Dremel) Dave I would try flatting that area with a low grade one, say light blue to start.
Did you know BTW that there is a Honda special tool to remove those plug caps, same one also used on the CB500K clutch adjuster. I bought 2 of them last year, just to see what they were like. Saves rounding the slot off.
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I would have polished them Ken but those inclusions are pretty deep in places hence the use of metal putty that will be covered with paint. I think polishing them will make the metal paper thin otherwise yes, I would have polished them. The sprocket cover is impossible to obtain although there is someone selling replicas on eBay but I've heard the quality isn't great. I'd rather have a painted original (or the bikes owner would anyway) than a poor quality replica.
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I haven’t posted any progress updates for the TL for a while; I’ve not been idle but have been doing a combination of cleaning and buying spares for the project.
A couple of items to report though, I have now collected the vapour blasted and painted engine cases back from R D Cox and Son in Reading and they have made a fantastic job of those. The original sprocket cover that was really badly damaged has come out well following the welding, filing, filing, blasting and painting.
I also had the new Pirelli trials tires fitted to the existing rims yesterday. I have polished the front brake drum but have the other side still to do. The anodised original rims and spokes have come up really well with a bit of elbow grease.
I have accumulated a vast amount of spares from what seems like all over the world for this bike! Once I receive the spares from DSS I can commence the build.
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I haven’t posted any progress updates for the TL for a while; I’ve not been idle but have been doing a combination of cleaning and buying spares for the project.
A couple of items to report though, I have now collected the vapour blasted and painted engine cases back from R D Cox and Son in Reading and they have made a fantastic job of those. The original sprocket cover that was really badly damaged has come out well following the welding, filing, filing, blasting and painting.
I also had the new Pirelli trials tires fitted to the existing rims yesterday. I have polished the front brake drum but have the other side still to do. The anodised original rims and spokes have come up really well with a bit of elbow grease.
I have accumulated a vast amount of spares from what seems like all over the world for this bike! Once I receive the spares from DSS I can commence the build.
Tidy work Sir! That sprocket cover has come up well. I sourced one from Japan not as bad as that which I was going to get welded etc. However won another Japside last week undamaged. Probably end up costing me £45 with shipping etc, so well pleased. There are repro ones out there for £130 and look pretty rough finished at that.
Were the spokes ok on the wheels, they look so?
Got last bits of my bike back from France now (motor and wheels) so hopefully be making a start before too long. Will never be near your standards though!
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Thanks Tim. Progress is slow but that's more down to the money supply being drip fed. I need to get a move on with it as I am now having to rent a garage from a neighbour to store my own bikes! Apart from the chroming and the paint I am ready to begin the build.
I took the gear lever rubber off yesterday (it is marked as 'Suzuki'). When I took the rubber off I found the lever had been snapped off at some time and a bolt welded in its place.......another part required although its going to be a Fecked alloy folding type.
Your project sounds like it is gaining momentum, you'll have it out on the slopes by year end :)
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Some progress to report.
I started to tap the exhaust system with a soft mallet and a lot of rust fell out, I'd say its likely to be a bit rotten inside but we are going with it as its original.
The fork have now been rebuilt with new seals (the PO had put a new set of seals on top of the old ones at some point so there were two seals in each leg!). I fitted the correct Honda seals with the metal spacer below and not the much thinner ‘universal’ type. I junked the gaiters and fitted proper dust seals. I gave the alloy fork legs a good polish on the mop.
I have run a tap through all the frame treads and engine threads with a good clean of everything and especially the engine cases. The wheels are now ready for refitting. New steering bearings have been fitted and I removed the flaky lacquer from the top yoke, gave it a good polish and fitted stainless clamp bolts after machining the bolt heads to remove the script and giving them a polish.
I am waiting for the chrome parts back before I can re-assemble the chassis.
Meanwhile....................
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I have commenced engine assembly.
After giving the cases another good clean and blast with compressed air after running a tap through the threads and followed that up with another good clean and another good blast of air. Everything went back together really easily although I replaced the kick-start gear that was chipped and also fitted the missing kick-start shaft thrust washer (maybe the chipped gear is related to the missing thrust washer because the shaft was moving?).
I replaced the crankshaft cam chain sprocket; how the cam stayed on the old one I don’t know! Knowing the problem I had getting the old one off (I had to resort to a dremmel) I put the crank in the freezer for 3 days and the new sprocket in the over at 180c for 20 minutes and it went on with some drifting action. All gears operate as they should.
The fuel tank has had two doses of DEOX-C with a lot of the internal rust has being removed but it may take another dose.
It’s nice to be putting things back together instead of taking them apart!
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Looking good Dave
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Well done Dave,
carefully making sure everything is spotless and clinically clean is the only safe way to assemble those engines.
Did you have to renew that timing side main bearing?
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That is big leaps ahead there Dave, some great work, good to see it coming together.
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Well done Dave,
carefully making sure everything is spotless and clinically clean is the only safe way to assemble those engines.
Did you have to renew that timing side main bearing?
Timing side bearing was fine Skoti as was the crank. I renewed the gearbox bearings (three of them) because two of them were really noisy after a clean. I also renewed the clutch lifter bearing.
Yep I agree when assembling an engine you have to be really clean, it only takes one piece of grit getting into a plain bearing!
Thanks Johnny, there's light at the end of the tunnel 👍
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It’s been a while since I posted an update to the TL125s. I’ve been on holiday but had to travel back a week early due to a family bereavement and I’ve had little enthusiasm to do much recently as a result.
I spent 5 hours on Monday at Moorfields eye hospital having been sent there as an emergency by my GP after suffering a bad haemorrhage and severe clotting in my left eye (no idea how I did it, no trauma injury, my BP is spot on as well). I’ve been told not to lift, sneeze, carry heavy shopping or ride the bike for a couple of weeks whilst it heals (I assume they also meant no garage time either?).
There was a minor amount of work undertaken over a couple of days last week. I fitted the new piston, rings and newly bored barrel returned by Bryan. I ground in the valves and reassembled and fitted the head with a new cam sprocket, chain and tensioner blades. I did find though that the large oil seal that fits between the barrel and head would not fit properly, it was too big in diameter to fit into the recess and stopped the head mating with the head gasket properly. Someone has made a note in the parts books this seal may be too big and to use an O-ring (they actually put the part number in the book as well of the o-ring to use). Once I fitted this the head went on smoothly. I received a parcel from Ash with the elusive exhaust guard, headlight, wiring loom and a newly softened inlet rubber (thanks Ash). I have now assembled the engine as far as I can go and until I order the oil seal for the points cover.
I chased up the chrome plating today as it’s been 10 weeks since I sent it and without some of those items being returned I cannot assemble the rolling chassis. And mount the engine into the frame.
I have found a company quite local to me who have quoted me £125 to blast and cerakote the complete exhaust system which is a good price (for London) so hopefully I’ll take that in within the next couple of weeks. I also managed to buy a litre of Synstryp to remove the layers of paint form the fuel tank, I won’t even attempt that job until my eye heals (and I’m wearing suitable PPE because Synstryp is nasty stuff).
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Looking good Dave, hope you are better soon
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That engine looks the dogs. The pinch in the tail pipe on these as it exists the silencer makes me wince. Can't afford to loose any of those 8 ponies.
Get well soon.
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That looks seriously clean Dave, very impressive build.👍👍👍
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Some progress.
I have now stripped the old scabby paint from the tank and found three previous minor dents. TBH I was expecting to find a lot of filler considering the rest of the bike but was pleasantly surprised with what I found. The inside of the tank hasn’t rusted following the good old DEOX-C treatment followed by a drop of diesel swished around the tank to keep it oiled. I’m taking the tank, side panels and headlight rim to Tony at CycleSprays today for its repaint.
Diego (Reddice on here and a site sponsor) has produced a set of tank and side panel decals to his usual immaculate standard.
Peter Horton the master of the clock has overhauled the original MPH speedo that came with the bike and has also found a set of lamp holders. The top bezel was badly dented, the lower bezel was missing and the case had a nasty dent that couldn’t be knocked out. Ash as usual came to the rescue (as he does with most of my restorations these days) and obtained a used JDM KPH speedo for sale in Japan (along with the all important exhaust heat shield that are made of rocking horse poo). Ash sent the KPH speedo to Peter who swapped all the missing and damaged bits over from the KPH to the MPH speedo, an absolute master of his craft. The JDM KPH speedo can hopefully be sold on, no use for it in blighty.
I also collected the chrome plating a couple of weeks ago from Ashford Chrome Plating, their usual excellent job, you can swim in the depth of the plating!
Next week it’s going to be the assembly of the chassis.
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Good work Dave. Hope your mate ain't going to ride this off road as it will look brand new!
Was the kick start knuckle all good as tend to hit the foot peg when people don't lift it as they should!
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The knuckle was fine Tim. Maybe the previous owner also had a 400/4 and he knew the damage that could be inflicted on a knuckle when you fail to lift the footrest up!
I went into the garage earlier today to do some work and walked straight out again, it was 36c in there 🥵.
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Got me thinking, there is actually meant to be a hold back clip / spring set up. Mine never had one back in the day but would imagine one of the first things to get damaged and removed!
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Thanks for that Tim 👍.
I think I best get one just in case. I would have thought it would be a very fiddly arrangement especially when trials riding and it stalling in the heat of a section when you just want to kick it over and get going again!
I got the front forks back on last night but not before discovering a mistake I had made during their rebuild. If you look at the manual it states the oil capacity in each leg as 95-110cc but deeper into the manual at the TL125 supplement it gives a capacity of 135cc (don't quote me, I'm out for the day in Oxford so no manual to look at). I topped up each leg via the oil drain bolt with a syringe as there was no way I was going to remove the circlip again at the top of the leg, they fly off with such force the spring follows it out! Getting them back in and seated in the groove is a nightmare requiring three hands!
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Some slow progress to report with the ongoing TL saga.
The engine is now in the frame ready for ignition timing and final finishing.
The wheels are on and it is starting to look like a bike again however, at the moment it seems I go one step forward to take two steps back mostly as a result of finding even more missing parts during the assembly stage. On Saturday I went to fit the chain and as I was rotating the rear wheel I noticed a hole in the wheel rim, I realised I had omitted a security bolt....aghh! The rim has one security bolt already fitted but for some reason the TL has two of them and of course only one was fitted when I got the bike, schoolboy error! A genuine Honda item was over £50!!! I bought one from Fecked for £5, it’s only a rubber block with a bolt! I tried to get the tire off with levers but as I no longer have the strength in my dodgy shoulder so will have to take it to the local bike shop to get it fitted.
I have had to make an adaptor plate to mount the rear tail light (repro Honda item via DSS) as the original Honda light mounting has been replaced at some point with a horrible universal type and the genuine Honda ones are now stored in the same place as rocking horse poo so it’s a case of make do at the moment. The airbox is on complete with the filter to carb rubber boot that was as hard as steel until Ash worked his magic and made it super supple again, it’s like new 8).
The one thing that is a real pain is the cables, I have tried three clutch cables and none of them fit either too long or too short. One of these was a £25 Venhill item that was 20mm too long whilst another was a Wemoto part that was 30mm too short! I am now going to try a TSK cable from Bertrams Bike Bits. The front brake cable (Venhill) was also a real struggle to fit. Same with the air filter, I’m about to order the third one of these as well! Suppliers really do need to check if the parts they are selling actually fit the machines they are listed for. Fecked expect you to pay for P&P to return items that don’t fit! I had one supplier who I bought a set of universal mudguards from sending me a mail to say the items were about to be dispatched and nothing arriving after three weeks. I had to get PayPal involved after the seller refused to respond to messages and phone calls. When PayPal became involved I got a response from the seller saying they were out of stock and no new stock arriving until late September at the earliest, he didn’t tell me that when he took the £80 >:(.
I will (hopefully) have a set of repro Honda front and rear mudguards by the end of the week from Shedworks who agreed to make me up a set in white and not their usual silver colour (Thanks Tim ;)).
I’m preparing myself to tackle the job I’ve been putting off, the wiring. I have two bitsa looms, one that was with the bike and not connected anywhere because it doesn’t fit and a JDM loom Ash managed to source for me. I hope I can make one good loom from the two or failing that buy a lot of connectors and cable and go from there!
At least it’s no longer in 000’s of parts spread all over the garage and I’m making progress. It would be nice to have it finished by the end of September, I remember saying the same about June and July ::)
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Coming along Dave
I sourced a complete cable set from Japan. No idea on quality but took the risk.
Those rear indicator mounts you made look the part.
Is the front mudguard mount original or a feked product?
Tim
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That bike is coming along nicely Dave, you’ve done a great deal of work on it.
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Coming along Dave
I sourced a complete cable set from Japan. No idea on quality but took the risk.
Those rear indicator mounts you made look the part.
Is the front mudguard mount original or a feked product?
Tim
It's a Fecked product Tim. The front mudguard is one of those with the moulded mud flap that look pig ugly and I think meant for a Spanish trial bike. The mudflap was broken so I cut it off at the mould line and reversed the mudguard. I thought I'd found a solution to the non availability of the genuine item but now nobody has any stock of the Spanish type ones in white. Hopefully Shedworks will make me a pair of his repro Honda ones in white👍.
Thanks Johnny, this one has been a long road, I'd never do another one with parts being so difficult to find and especially electrical parts and wiring.
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It's looking brilliant Dave. Better than factory. 👍
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Tim, Do you have one of these springs at all? Nobody has one, even CMSNL. I have it on my watch list but don't hold out much hope! I have fitted the r/h footrest without the return spring fitted otherwise I can see carnage when I go to kickstart it and break the knuckle (400/4 anyone🫣).
Anyway, I found someone who can make one-off and small runs of springs as long as they have one to copy of course......
If you have one Tim I could get it copied and maybe get a few made, I'm sure they'll sell like hot cakes, or 400/4 knuckles if they were available 👍
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Oops, senior moment, this spring......
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It's looking brilliant Dave. Better than factory. 👍
Thanks Gareth.
I'm surprised how a small bike can be so fiddly to build. One thing I found out the very hard way is to fit the small rear brake rod lever onto the splined shaft of the actual brake lever itself along with the 6mm x 25mm bolt BEFORE fitting the engine into the frame because there is absolutely no room to fit it afterwards!
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Tim, Do you have one of these springs at all? Nobody has one, even CMSNL. I have it on my watch list but don't hold out much hope! I have fitted the r/h footrest without the return spring fitted otherwise I can see carnage when I go to kickstart it and break the knuckle (400/4 anyone🫣).
Anyway, I found someone who can make one-off and small runs of springs as long as they have one to copy of course......
If you have one Tim I could get it copied and maybe get a few made, I'm sure they'll sell like hot cakes, or 400/4 knuckles if they were available 👍
No sorry Dave. Surely pretty simple for a man of your talents to adapt an existing spring to have curly ends? At least as a temporary fix as you do like originality!😜
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Tim, Do you have one of these springs at all? Nobody has one, even CMSNL. I have it on my watch list but don't hold out much hope! I have fitted the r/h footrest without the return spring fitted otherwise I can see carnage when I go to kickstart it and break the knuckle (400/4 anyone🫣).
Anyway, I found someone who can make one-off and small runs of springs as long as they have one to copy of course......
If you have one Tim I could get it copied and maybe get a few made, I'm sure they'll sell like hot cakes, or 400/4 knuckles if they were available 👍
No sorry Dave. Surely pretty simple for a man of your talents to adapt an existing spring to have curly ends? At least as a temporary fix as you do like originality!😜
I might have to try Tim, it has to be strong enough to hold the footrest back but weak enough to allow it to be unhooked quickly. I'll start with the spring from a Bic biro and work up to a valve spring and see how I get on. It's just the thought of not sleeping at night worrying about the departure from originality 🫨. There are so many stainless nuts and bolts on this thing I think the rivet counters will have a nightmare. I must have spent a couple of days filing the script off stainless bolts and polishing.
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Not a good look when you see that bolts with the script still on when replaced. I do mine in the pillar drill.😜
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I collected the paint set this morning from Tony at CycleSpray near Haywards Heath in Sussex. He's done a lovely job. I've used enhance settings on the camera because the photos were a bit dark but this has given the red a more orange hue. The correct colour of red is Honda Fighting Red.
I feel like I'm making progress now so off out into the garage with a mug of splosh for a bit more fettling
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Jealous...
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These look fantastic Dave nice paint job, good progress.
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A brief update on the TL build.
I got the exhaust back from the powder coater a couple of weeks ago; he advised me NOT to Cerakote it as the corrosion on the front header pipe would be really noticeable. Instead he used a high temp powder coat to build it up. It looks good and hopefully it will last. When I came to fit the exhaust I encountered two problems. The first was the cheap and nasty unbranded rear shocks that came with the bike fouled on the silencer box. The original Honda shocks are very thin like candlesticks and are of course no longer available. Every shock listed on the web for a TL will not fit, the springs on aftermarket shocks are 52/53mm OD and will only fit if you junk the original exhaust and fit a Sammy Miller type replacement. Enter Falcon Shocks in Dorset and a phone call to Robin the owner who told me he could make a pair with the spring offset by 2mm. A few days later they arrived and following a bit of fettling to the bush diameter and length (everyone needs a lathe) they fitted, perfect!
The second issue with the exhaust was the flange supplied by the owner as a genuine spare was way too big, the collets just fell through it so I was forced to use the flange the bike came with, a big aluminium competition item that was covered in hammer blows and was very manky. I put this in the lathe and faced it off and turned it down to remove the hammer blows, not standard but I think it looks ok.
Next on to the nightmare of the wiring, I purchased connectors and cable from VWP and set to. First job was to make another headlight earth tab. I was lucky to have one for the other side and I made a new one using the original as a pattern, not great but it’s acceptable. I’ve begun to make the loom and used my new ratchet crimp tool for the first time, what a revelation these are, every home needs one of these and an automatic wire stripper (along with an air fryer I guess) they make the job so much easier.
More to come..........
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I guess the air fryer is to shrink the sleeving!
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Dave more nice work but.... It may be the image making it look too big but are you really sure about the exhaust header clamp. Everything else looks so original....?
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I know Tim, it's ermm.....big! That was fitted when I was given the bike along with a 'new' OEM item that didn't fit. I've got fed up keep organising the parts etc so thought this can just go back on after a bit of lathe time.
I've got another 10 week wait for more chrome (the rear light bracket) but I've had enough of doing this bike now, it's just so frustrating finding bits that are missing and getting parts that don't fit. It's costing me £50/month having to rent garage space to store my own bike whilst I do this one. I want it gone by end of September so the original rear light can go back on if the chrome isn't ready.
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I was getting that vibe!!🤔