Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: Rozabikes Tim on February 09, 2025, 05:09:07 PM
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Hi Ken,
Now you're back in the fold Ken, I have been desperate to know how your 500 resto is going? Really enjoyed the old thread and your fanatical attention to detail.
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Sorry Tim, missed this. So busy with my bathroom project I don’t have time for anything else.
Where is it at? Ready to start rebuilding the rolling chassis, frame has all the welds sealed, it was then powder coated. I still need to fill the inside of the frame tubes with zinc paint, drain it off and then do it again with Waxoyl. When that’s done assemble the front end. Most of that is already in sub assemblies, bars are finished, clocks are mainly finished, just need to sort out my digital voltmeter which lives inside my tacho, might fit that at a later date though. Forks and yokes are done, brakes are done, wheels are not. Fitting my Lester mag wheels and they need ceramic coating and the rims and spoke edges polishing. 80% ready for the coaters, haven’t decided on front guard yet, might fit standard chrome guard or might refit the 900fz blade I had fitted previously, needs a repaint though. Rear end is ready to fit, Marzocchi dampers are done, they turned out well. Engine hasn’t been touched yet though, got a bucket load of new parts to go in that including a set of NOS 550 barrels, new pistons, rings etc. New shells if it needs them, clutch basket renovated with new damper rubbers, 650 primary chain tensioner being fitted as well. Was planning for this year, might make it, might not. Missus wants me to do the house first and tbh I feel that’s more important than just thinking of myself, so if I’ve got some free time I’ll do a bit and if not then what’s another year, it’s been going on for so long now another won’t matter much.
I do have some plans to improve the bike, side stand warning device for when you set off with it down, plus a few others I’m still planning out, like an hydraulic clutch conversion, some engine improvements to gain a few bhp, nothing radical, still needs to be rideable. Coming along but haven’t done a single thing to it this year yet.
When it does happen it will be fast though, expect a month from first assembly to finished project, it’s just starting it that’s the problem. 😁😁
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Be good to see some photos as you progress with the frame build Ken, we like piccies. ;D ;D ;D
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Ta Ken for the update.
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[...]
I do have some plans to improve the bike, side stand warning device for when you set off with it down, plus [...]
I'm interested in this. Long time ago I had a switch connected. It was a small container like one of our condensers. It was filled with mercury. It worked but hasn't lived long. It has spilled the mercury in the environment :-[. Those who own a model with that dreaded turn signal buzzer, could use it to alarm you, when sidestand is down with the IGN ON and kill switch in RUN.
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I think this is a very worthwhile mod on these old bikes. Twice last year I set off with the side stand down!😳 There are probably so many ways to wire it up, I thought about having one wired to kill switch wiring. Haven’t done anything about it yet but have been looking online at switches. Trouble is I’ve got three bikes that need this mod. Even the old “matchbox†has got the spring loaded one that retracts on its own.😜
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Actually wiring it into the indicator buzzer was one of the plans, I've set off with it down so many times, in fact on inspection the side stand has a slight bend upwards, caused no doubt by hitting the road quite hard, this caused the stand to ding the exhaust pipe closest to it, always wondered why it was doing that. I'm also fitting an adjuster bolt so I can stop it going to high in the future. I'm considering using a side stand sensor off a modern bike, mounted on the rear nut, either connected to the kill switch so the engine won't start with it down or to a warning device like the buzzer (which I have) so you know it's down, still refining the idea. Need to get the stand straightened first, tried using heat, couldn't get it hot enough to glow, need Oxyacetylene on it and a press.
I'll document all the mods, you can either copy them or laugh at them ;D ;D
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Could you not utilise a rear brake light switch Ken
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Think it would look unsightly Bryan.
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OK but i remember a bloody great big tin box on the Z 1000 doung the same job
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Trying to think outside the box as to a suitable switch:-
Can't remember what car it was, back in the day some had a mercury switch for the boot light.
House door alarm sensor has a magnetic proximity switch.
I never work out how the interior light worked on our old Jeep WK as there were no visible typical door shut switches on the doors or in the frame.
Does anyone already make a kit suitable for older bikes?
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Surprised that there’s not just an after market kit that has been developed just to fit to these old bikes, there’s plenty of them about to justify the development of such an accessory along with wiring details. I would buy at least one.
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When you say you sealed all the welds Ken, where were the welds exactly and are they uniquie to the 550 or common to other models? I ask becuase the 400/4 has a bit of a reputation for rotting on the lower left frame loop at the sidestand mount so maybe the water finds its way into the frame tube via weld?
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For the sidestand "switch" you could possibly use a bicycle derailleur cable as they are fairly small and available with stainless bowden material.
If you fit two ferrule, one in each end of sidestand spring, thread the cable up through the bottom one so the nipple is captured in that end, top ferrule bored to accept outer cable, then as the spring is moves in down position (spring is left more extended) it'll pull that cable.
Route the cable up along the frame into underseat area to mount a suitable switch there.
Switch wiring, could go to earth and T into one of the points to coil leads. Stand in down position switches that line to earth and cuts two cylinder out. It'll then stall if set correctly to run on all four.
But critically, it would give you an element of fail safe should it activate inadvertently, allowing you to have some control over pace in that eventually.
Honda and other's have some level of fail safety built into loom via neutral light status etc.
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When you say you sealed all the welds Ken, where were the welds exactly and are they uniquie to the 550 or common to other models? I ask becuase the 400/4 has a bit of a reputation for rotting on the lower left frame loop at the sidestand mount so maybe the water finds its way into the frame tube via weld?
I noticed when I was stripping the frame of all it's paint prior to having it powder coated that all the welds Honda did, not seam welds, but welds where a lug had been welded to the frame, lower front engine mounts for example, they were spot welded rather than seam welded, this allowed water to get under the lug and essentially just sit there and rot the frame over time, made worse because there is no paint under there to stop them. The more I looked the more gaps I could see, it is for example why the 500 tends to rot out the exhaust brackets welded onto the back of the frame, where the pillion foot rests go. Water run down the frame tube, into the gap in the weld and then drops down to the bottom of the bracket, there is a drain hole there but it's small and not always in the right place and sometimes people don't see it and it gets painted over. There are gaps everywhere. So I decided I'd get them all closed up before having it powder coated, cost me about £50 IIRC. Now they are all seam welded and no corrosion can get under them. I was talking to the welder and he pointed out all the drilled holes in the frame tubes, blow holes for when it was welded originally, without them the welds won't close as the air can't escape, so I decided to use those to gain access to the inside of the tubes, I bought a meat marinading needle set, very thick needle, so should be fine for thin paint for instance. I now intend to fill each section of the frame with a thin zinc paint, this should coat the inside of the tubes and stop any further corrosion, I'll then drain out the paint and reuse. After I've done all the frame I thought I'd do the same thing but this time with Waxoyl, can't hurt and you never know, might just work better than the paint. So the frame is now sealed outside and in, hopefully that should stop any corrosion and rust happening in the future. I won't live to see the benefit I don't think but my lad who will inherit my bikes will see the benefit with a little luck. I even intend to zinc paint the inside of the headstock, it does get rusty as I've found out, and the inside of the swinging arm, had those welds closed as well.
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Interesting to see the debate the side stand idea has generated. Different ideas and perspectives. I didn't consider something to drag the sidestand back up, I just wanted something to warn me it was down, if that was an audible warning or something that stopped the engine firing I was working out what I thought would work the best whilst also being simple and easy to install.
Lets see what the community comes up with, someone somewhere may just have the perfect idea.
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I came across this recently - might be a good option?:
- https://www.frost.co.uk/eastwood-green-internal-frame-chassis-coating-with-spray-nozzle/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk7aTiYXBiwMVbpRQBh2ZZQz5EAQYBCABEgLEz_D_BwE
I'm planning to use it on the next 750 police bike frame projects I build (a P0 and P2), prior to them being stripped and painted.
I generally take the same approach as Ken and get the frame interface welds checked/sealed if possible prior to paint - luckily the guy who strips my frames is an excellent welder, so he can do both jobs simultaneously which avoids a time delay in the frames flash rusting prior to priming/paint..
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That looks interesting James, I wonder how big the nozzle head is though, small enough to go through the blow holes?
I thought I was the only one going to such extremes, in fact when I mentioned it the other year it was sort of said it would weaken the frame to have the welds closed, or if not weaken it then affect how the frame flexs and that would affect how the bike handles. Any insight on your yours performed afterwards.
Funny how little conversations like this can really get people talking, like my idea of having a digital volt meter, I saw it on Alan Millyards 6. Cylinder Z1 and thought I like that idea, his was mounted in the idiot panel but I thought that might leave it exposed to the elements etc so came up with the idea of mounting it inside the tacho, it was finding a really small voltmeter that proved to be harder than mounting it through the tacho facia. Again, some said it was a waste of time and wasn’t needed but the amount of charging problems being posted these days clearly show these old girls are reaching their limit on age related wiring problems and anything to give you advance notice of that happening has to be worthwhile.
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For the sidestand why don't you fit one of those rubber strips to it, like the 400f uses. The rubber catches first and pulls the stand back before the stand itself digs in.
When you drain the zinc paint out of the frame tubes how are you going to prevent the silver paint showing on the fresh powder coat? It's likely to be dripping out for quite a while. I would have thought that just using Waxoyl or Lanoguard inside the frame tubes would be more than enough protection.
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I’ll just wipe any excess off with a rag soaked in thinners, shouldn’t affect the powder coating. I do agree it will take a little draining but if it’s runny enough it shouldn’t be too hard, I intend to suspend the frame on bungie ropes to get the right angle to make the drain hole the lowest point.
You can tell I tend to overthink things, I have imagine them in my head then try and find the problems before they occur, far too much time on my hands 😀😀😀
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You could also consider using Atom-Mac and or Dynax S50? You would for course need to inject the Atom -Mac.
Oops,,sorry. Bilt Hamber products.
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For the sidestand why don't you fit one of those rubber strips to it, like the 400f uses. The rubber catches first and pulls the stand back before the stand itself digs in.
When you drain the zinc paint out of the frame tubes how are you going to prevent the silver paint showing on the fresh powder coat? It's likely to be dripping out for quite a while. I would have thought that just using Waxoyl or Lanoguard inside the frame tubes would be more than enough protection.
My plan on the next frames (the Police bikes) is to do the internal coating before the frames are blasted. I’ll address any weld defects first, then internally paint, weld any access holes, dress back, then blast, zinc prime and paint. I’m sure there’s a hole in my thinking somewhere lol..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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I did consider that approach James but felt there was a chance that the heat of the ovens used to cure the powder coat would affect the internal coating as well, especially Waxoyl.
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Fair point Ken. I have my frames painted so the curing temperatures involved are considerably less I guess. Like you say, removing any excess that runs out over the PC finish carefully with a light solvent should do the trick.
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Ken - saw your post on US forum re. 500/550 ignition switch bracket. Pretty sure I have one for you - drop me a Pm. James
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It’s Mike Berkshire who wants the bracket James, I thought I’d see if the yanks have one spare as they did tend to move the switch to the bars back in the day.
Thanks for responding though, decent of you.
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For the sidestand why don't you fit one of those rubber strips to it, like the 400f uses. The rubber catches first and pulls the stand back before the stand itself digs in.
Sorry, forgot to reply to this point. The shape of the heel of the 500 is different to the 550 stand for instance, the 550 did have the rubber strip fitted BUT they also moved it back on the frame from under the lower front engine mounts to just behind the riders footrests, whether that location helped it work I've no idea. But due to the shape of the heel on the 500 it wasn't feasible. I did consider fitting a 550 side stand but wasn't sure if it was smaller/larger due to different mounting location and TBH I just don't like the shape of the 550 side stand anyway. If I iron out the bugs on this idea I'll be sure to post a possible solution. I saw a pic of a CB550 clutch cover the other day with a small slave cylinder attached to it, clearly ditching the cable pull arrangement, looked pretty good TBH but a little sticky outie for my liking.
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Ohh, I forgot this little project.
Some will look at this and just say WHY? Some will like it, some may hate it. It was just one of those things that just happened to be able to be done and I thought, why not?
So I have been replacing clutch basket rubbers on some of my spare clutches over last summer. I'd split a number of baskets and found that in general the 500 baskets were still ok, no real movement of the large gear at the back, the 550 ones however were a different story. I have around 5 IIRC, 2 were buggered, 2 were ok and 1 was marginal. So I split 2x500 baskets and 2x550 baskets. One of the 500 baskets broke in 2 halves due to the force I was using to try and remove the existing rivets, lesson learned on how to remove them, if they won't punch out, drill right down the centre of them and collapse them inwards, sometimes just the drilling makes them drop out. I intend to refit the good 500 rubbers into the 550 baskets and get at least a working 550 basket.
However off topic. I was getting a lot of parts either ceramic or powder coated last summer. For a laugh I decided to get the basket done, the rear gear was done in a special coating designed to reduce noise and friction, designed to be used on car gearbox gears, so I had that done in that, along with the securing disc at the back, I'll get the primary gear it meshes with coated at some point but it wasn't available at the time. This coating only comes in one colour, a sort of gunmetal grey, so I decided on the same colour for the basket I'd had my CB1300 wheels done it, a really nice gold.
Here's the result
Basket. You can see the rivet holes have been tapped to 6mm.
(https://i.ibb.co/tMZhGkM7/IMG-3523.jpg)
Gear
(https://i.ibb.co/C5HjkQmH/IMG-3524.jpg)
Securing plate
(https://i.ibb.co/JR0MxN91/IMG-3525.jpg)
Inner baskets
(https://i.ibb.co/S7s2PmFf/IMG-3526.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/PZx5dcWP/IMG-3527.jpg)
Assembling, brand new damper rubbers fitted.
(https://i.ibb.co/SDqQL4Gy/IMG-3528.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/d4hwf05L/IMG-3529.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/PsZrnTf2/IMG-3530.jpg)
Fully assembled with plates fitted.
(https://i.ibb.co/GQ3gy9xj/IMG-3532.jpg)
And yes I know, you can't see it once it's fitted. Unless you look through the dipstick hole that is :) :) But I am considering putting a window in the clutch casing and making a feature out of it. Another little project.
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My answer is why not, you like it, you know its there so good enough!
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A Bling clutch, brill.👍👍👍
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Definitely too good to be fitted under a standard clutch cover! It’s not one bit OTT!😂😂
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Ohh, I forgot this little project.
Basket. You can see the rivet holes have been tapped to 6mm.
So this bolts back up and not riveted Ken? Never really read about details of rubber replacement on these clutches.
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Ohh, I forgot this little project.
Basket. You can see the rivet holes have been tapped to 6mm.
So this bolts back up and not riveted Ken? Never really read about details of rubber replacement on these clutches.
Max a former member has made a few batches of the rubbers for a couple of different models, I think he will also thread your old basket if needed.
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Yeah, it’s the same way the 400 clutch basket rubbers are done. You drill out the rivets, tap the holes, they are the right size for tapping already, dismantle the basket and replace the rubbers, reassemble using locktite on the new bolts. The hard part is finding the new rubbers and finding the right sized bolts, the heads must be no bigger than 3mm in height or they’ll hit the mechanism behind the clutch.
Grommitdog sourced the bolts, I imported the rubbers. The seller refuses to post outside Europe so I asked someone in Europe to buy me 6 sets, wasn’t cheap. Each set is around £55-60.
Max btw doesn’t do the 500/550 clutches, only the 400
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I've just looked at Max's ebay shop, he does quite a bit of bike stuff now.
.https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3542580.m47492.l71970&_ssn=hay_2506
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On the side-stand thing, I was thinking of painting mine a bright colour on the end so I notice it when I lean down to turn the ignition key. Another idea I pondered was to attach a piece of rubber hose on the end and hold in place with jubilee clip. I haven't tried either of these so cannot validate their efficacy.
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A switch that does not allow the engine to run when the side stand is down is a simple & effective idea.
It's a shame they are not easy to retro fit.
IIRC my XJ900F had one, I was quite baffled one day when I could not ride off after filling it with petrol.
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I've just looked at Max's ebay shop, he does quite a bit of bike stuff now.
.https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3542580.m47492.l71970&_ssn=hay_2506
Almost all the 500 stuff that Max sells was done for me, I kept suggesting stuff for him to copy and he obliged. Much missed on here, a great resource, shame he felt he had to leave. He also does the carb rod for the 500/550, I still have a few spare if anyone wants one, cheaper than Max is currently selling BTW as he did a few for me and reduced the price a little, £50 inc P&P. One thing that's missing off his Ebay shop for some reason are the 2 bolts for the 500/550 torque arm, first things he did IIRC, they fit through the brake plate and the bracket on the swinging arm, did a really good job of copying them. I wanted him to do the 2 large rear engine hanger bolts as well but he'd left by the time I came up with the idea. I think they'd sell well.
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A switch that does not allow the engine to run when the side stand is down is a simple & effective idea.
It's a shame they are not easy to retro fit.
IIRC my XJ900F had one, I was quite baffled one day when I could not ride off after filling it with petrol.
And probably the easiest to wire up as well, just splice into the black/white wire and job done.
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I've just looked at Max's ebay shop, he does quite a bit of bike stuff now.
.https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3542580.m47492.l71970&_ssn=hay_2506
Almost all the 500 stuff that Max sells was done for me, I kept suggesting stuff for him to copy and he obliged. Much missed on here, a great resource, shame he felt he had to leave. He also does the carb rod for the 500/550, I still have a few spare if anyone wants one, cheaper than Max is currently selling BTW as he did a few for me and reduced the price a little, £50 inc P&P. One thing that's missing off his Ebay shop for some reason are the 2 bolts for the 500/550 torque arm, first things he did IIRC, they fit through the brake plate and the bracket on the swinging arm, did a really good job of copying them. I wanted him to do the 2 large rear engine hanger bolts as well but he'd left by the time I came up with the idea. I think they'd sell well.
You can try sending him an email Ken as I did when I asked him if he could make a carb spindle for my 400/4. He obliged and a cracking piece of work it is, a straight swap and it will never rust.
Yes, I agree, a shame he left the forum.
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I agree, whoever took part in driving Max away from our forum should hang their head(s) in shame.
He made me a set of wheel spacers for my Superdream, top bloke.