Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: ted_paper on February 24, 2025, 12:08:26 PM
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Sort of a follow on from condensers and points topic.
This is my first time changing points and setting the timing so I have been following Youtube videos and the Haynes manual.
The problem I am having is that the timing plate has run out of adjustment - ie when the circuit to the points is made, there is no adjustment that be made to bring it line with the F mark.
I have attached some pics which show when a circuit at max adjustment.
Am I doing something basically wrong?
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Check the points gap. When set to the correct gap you may have enough adjustment to get the timing right.
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I gather that those are not TEC points? In that you can see TEC embossed into the base plate?
If not then this is quite common if you're using cheap and nasty aftermarket points, the price makes them look attractive but this is the result. Set them to 12" point gap and see if that helps, it usually does. 1-4 usually line up but 2-3 won't is the usual problem.
Or buy TEC points.
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The video I've been following suggests to to use the tang that appears in the view hole approx. 90 degree turn after the firing mark to use to find the max point opening - is this the correct way or is it just a case of trying to eye it in?
Points are non-branded from Wemoto, about a tenner each - probably false economy then?
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The tang sounds about right for maximum opening, the points are probably Daichi, is there a small sort of propellor symbol on the base plate of the points, just so we know that Wemoto are selling Daichi.
TEC points, which are the genuine points, are around £25-30 a set, sometimes it ends up cheaper to buy the complete base plate from Honda, especially if you need condensers as well, but those seem to be drying up these days. The best bet to protect the points is to think about fitting the Hondaman system, this changes the way the points work, the spark essentially wears them out, so the Hondaman system removes that and makes the points just act as a make/break piece with hardly any current running through them, the timing is controlled by a small electronic box. This way the points last for years and years, and the beauty of the system is that IF the electronics go belly up it's a simple 30 sec job to revert back to the points again.
It's the way I went with mine and lots of other members have too. If any of the other electronic systems fail, like Boyer, Illuminition, Kokosan, for example, the bike stops and leaves you stranded at the side of the road. Nice to see nice new screws etc on the plate Ted ;D ;D
https://sohc4shop.com/transistor-ignition-double
Oh there's a small piece of felt at about 5 o'clock on the points plate, drop some light oil on it if you haven't already, it helps stop the points heel from wearing as it rubs on the advance/retard cam. Something like silicon oil or 3 in 1.
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Re-gapped the points
1 and 4 are now firing ever-so slightly late but can't adjust them anymore.
2 and 3 are now constantly making a circuit!
Is there a way to test points to see if they work correctly?
The manual says gapping between .03 and .04 - does increasing or decreasing the gap size within these limits effect anything?
Thanks
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Re-gapped the points
1 and 4 are now firing ever-so slightly late but can't adjust them anymore.
2 and 3 are now constantly making a circuit!
Is there a way to test points to see if they work correctly?
The manual says gapping between .03 and .04 - does increasing or decreasing the gap size within these limits effect anything?
Thanks
I found setting the points more difficult than I imagined, with the main base plate adustments, the separate adjuster plate for 2 & 3 plus the points themselves it took me a lot of fiddling to get it right.
IMHO you should not run out of adjustment to set 1 & 4 correctly, sounds like either worn or poor quality points. I was lucky enough to find a complete used base plate from Steve at 400fourbits that had all Tec parts.
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Remember replacing aftermarket points short ago for the same reason there was just not enough of a heel left on the points to get the correct adjustment. Replaced them with a second hand set that I just happened to have.
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I have a few sets of genuine TEC points Ted, I'm loath to part with them because they are so hard to find now without paying through the nose, even DS hasn't got the 2-3 points anymore and his 1-4 are out of stock and they are £38 each when they are in stock. Yamiya have a few sets but they are close to £30 each plus postage from Japan so that option isn't fantastic.
I'll sell a pair to you for £60 inc P&P, let me know if that's acceptable, the offer isn't for any other person BTW, just Ted, if Ted doesn't want them then I'll open it up. I'm not selling more than one set though until I work out what I need.
Seriously consider buying the Hondaman kit Ted, points and condensers are expensive nowadays for these bikes so you need to make them last. The Hondaman kit doesn't need condensers BTW BUT if you don't fit them you're unable to revert back to standard until you do, so best fit them.
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"Seriously consider buying the Hondaman kit Ted"
If the points removed to fit these "new" one's are original TEC, then likely will be usable in combination with the kit suggested by Ken.
In other words, original TEC with faces cleaned carefully, plus Hondaman kit, would make a decent and complete set to run reliably.
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That’s a point Nigel, I just may have some decent old TEC points lying around he could use with the Hondaman system, it’s not like they’ll get any worse as the faces just don’t do much, just the heel wear to consider but as long as it’s well lubed that can be kept under control.
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The points that have been removed were also unbranded.
I've just looked at the link that Oddjob left ( I assume that this is the hondaman system?) .
Does this make setting the timing easier, or does it tend to keep the timing more accurate for longer?
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Nope. Timing is still reliant on the points and plate position, so points heel wear, however insignificant, is a determining factor. Also it retains the original advance/retard mechanism, so that needs to be in good order too.
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Basically, Hondaman takes the load off the points and condenser giving them an easier time electrically speaking.
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You could always get a Velleman diy kit and make your own for around £25.
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The heal wear will be accommodated by adjustment of points gap, and doesn't change the accuracy of the system, unless the wear is too severe.
The problems coming from non OEM type points is forced by their accuracy of pivot point and heal placement in relation to the backplate. They need to present the heal to the cam such that they are exactly 180 degree disposed and across the cam centre. Without that accuracy the backplate and 2/3 points plate will need to be moved wrongly in accommodation of the geometry error.
Altering the points gap to artificially reach timing point is effectively also accommodation of geometric error, this by changing the "airgap" under the heal such tgatvit is then struck by cam early or late to move the timing without moving the backplates.
A decent set of used points AND electronic switching should see them working without compromise effectively.
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Okay, thanks.
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After a few cups of coffee, taking everything off the plate and re-assembling and re-gapping, I have finally managed to get the firing marks lined up, with the plate at it's max adjustment for 1/4 points.
Thanks everyone for the advice.