Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB750 => Topic started by: Honda enthusiast on April 22, 2025, 08:38:41 AM
-
Been out on the K7 first ride all good no oil leaks or a breakdown but the front brake lever needs a big squeeze to get decent braking.
I'm using EBC organic fa013 pads, what do you guys recommend?
Thanks Hubert
-
The brakes on my 750K5 are not what I would describe as good. It takes a big handful to pull up quick. Don't think it's the pads, just the general design, after all they are 60's brakes.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
-
In the imortal phrase " They are all like that sir"
At the time they were lightyears ahead of the twin leading shoe british bikes, now they lag way behind the newer stuff.
Things you can check to get the best out of it, in most common order of problems
1 swinging arm free on pivot pin
2 clean fluid
3 tiny return hole in master
4 piston surface and seal groove
5 collapsing flexi pipes
-
I would usually agree Bryan except the drum on the front of my Black Bomber is superb, way better than the 750 or 350 disks
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
-
I did say British TLS !!!
-
Been out on the K7 first ride all good no oil leaks or a breakdown but the front brake lever needs a big squeeze to get decent braking.
I'm using EBC organic fa013 pads, what do you guys recommend?
Thanks Hubert
I use EBC FA13V pads and EBC MD1062LS brake disc.
Suitable for CB750F1 and K7 models.
Not cheap but gives an acceptable brake performance.
Good luck
Skoti
-
That's good then Bryan, we are in agreement.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
-
Thanks 😊👍 guys, I'll take your tips onboard and try the ebc semi sintered pads first, cheers Skoti
And also go through the existing set up on the lines you mentioned, Bryan
You're right they aren't like modern brakes, I'd just like them to be a bit better...
-
All good things to check in previous posts in making sure there's no basic compromise within your system.
The part I pay most attention to on all brakes I work with is the caliper seal though. If that's compromised by corrosion, stopping the correct function of the seal in it's dynamic movement, then the brake will always perform at substandard level. It makes a huge difference in my experience.
The seal groove must be absolutely clear and devoid of any corrosion/gunky effect to allow the seal to both move out and then pull the piston back in again to withdraw the pad from disc contact. Without this function fully realised, it'll feel wooden, glaze the pads through continuous contact while running, and not allow the mastercylinder to deliver required amount of fluid in equilibrium into line feed.
Certainly they don't have the bite of a modern system, that's obvious. But they absolutely should be far more competent than statement of "they're old brakes, what do you expect" type comments seek to underpin.
They would, all of these single disc system, have decent real use stopping distance when contemporary, that should be the aim now. Properly set up, they are pretty decent in everyday use.
I use silicone grease to install the caliper seal and piston to make them firstly move with ease, secondly its highly repellent of water, meaning they generally stay in full functional state for longer.
-
Aside from all the excellent advice given there is one other thing worth mentioning.
You might be a sprightly youngster who works out in the Gym if that is the case disregard the following comment.
In my case it's the subtle but incremental weakness of the aging biker pulling on the brake or clutch lever.
This same biker (me) has trouble opening milk bottles, jam jars, pull ring cans to name but a few.
I think its affected the torque reading from hand to brain, a conspiracy to make life more challenging as I age ;D ;D ;D
-
Worth checking that the caliper is mounted properly. The amount of 500/550s calipers I saw with the mudguard stay mounted UNDER the caliper mount was insane, this meant the caliper sat lobsided and the brakes were spongy and ineffective until the pads started to wear at an angle. The 750 uses the same type system so I'd imagine the same mistake can be made.
-
Yes it can also be the case on a 750. I refurbished my front end, forks seals etc. and
- braided hoses (HEL)
- replacement calliper (David Silver)
- pads
- brake fluid all properly bled, no air
- new calliper arm hinge pin and o-ring, + greased
I reassembled, copying the way it was and then noticed the mudguard stay was between the calliper arm mount and fork. I'd been riding it like that. Obviously, I then put it right.
I still find it requires quite a lever pull to get serious braking.
Yesterday, I was a sensible distance behind a van. It suddenly started to get much closer. Brake lights were defective. I needed a hard pull, but I did stop pretty quickly. From that experience, Id say they do work well enough, they just don't have the 'feel' to give much confidence.
-
Feel can often be about pad material, too hard and it feels wooden. Organic is normally the best for feel but suffers with dust and quick wear and of course brake fade if used very hard. Sintered are good but can be hard on the discs, still a dust problem though. I'm going to try some carbon pads next, got them on my 1300 and they are great, almost no dust, stop like hell and are kinder to the disc than sintered.
Have you bedded the pads in and removed the old bedding from the disc surface? Makes a hell of a difference if done correctly.
-
I change mine to twin disc brakes are much better
-
I change mine to twin disc brakes are much better
They do work really well with twin setup, don't they.
It does though have more to do with hydraulic ratio of master to caliper ratio than absolute disc swept area.
Honda used originally very conservative ratio for them, to make them most linear and not too grabby .... of which views have now significantly shifted.
A different, smaller, master cylinder bore will be as effective for brake feel and what is interpretation of "power" to rider.
More pad and disc surface will predominantly give better performance to fade & repeated abilities to dissipate energy at the extremes of use, generally unlikely the way these are ridden nowadays.
-
Recently, I changed the original master cylinder, which I had been using since 1995, as it had failed and was leaking brake fluid. I replaced with the one from David Silver and I have to say it has transformed my brakes, much better feel and stops more quickly.
Another useful addition has been stainless steel replacement caliper piston. Saves the almost annual caliper rebuild.
Braided hose is a sensible choice too. Obviously, not period correct but I think worthwhile.
Pads are EBC Sintered.
-
Changed my front pads to the EBC FA13V that Skoti recommended and the stopping power has increased by about 50%. The front brake is now feeling a bit more up to the job.
-
I want twin discs on my F1, with drilled discs all round - yes, I know that they don't really work any better, I just like the style.
I think that the extra front disc should remove the need for high performance pads and discs
-
Halo - new on the forum
Bringing this brake thread to life. Does anyone have experience with the Brembo pads 07HO0229 for our CB750K0-K6? It´s a so called "Carbon Ceramic pad.
-
For me the EBC pads and modern hoses from HEL made to measure, together give the braking needed.
-
Just to point out that if you replaced the pads as well (as you stated) they may just need to be bedded in, aalthough they are not the best brakes, they may well improve :-)
-
Since Brembo makes these, someone should have tested them and have some kind of opinion. I have steel braided brake hoses and now I'm going to choose brake shoes.
I have EBC FA012V and these Brembo pads as my main options. Maybe it doesn't matter which ones I choose.
-
The ceramic pad type seems quite stable and works well on the applications I've tried. I've not used them on a 750 disc though, so general observations from me.
It appears there's some marketing "flexibility" in the naming though as "Carbon Ceramic" is very obviously already used for much more expensive disc materials and associated pads.
My experience is that they have a gentle initial bite, then more accumulated friction effect (their publicity of friction co-efficient seems to agree with this in the graph ) as they are both clamped and getting hotter. I like that linearity and consistency more than pads that give first touch superficial high bite feel.
They do give smooth surface and low wear characteristics to the pad that's very consistent over life.
-
I fitted Brembo Carbon Ceramic pads to my 400, I am happy with the performace compared with the DS ones that came with the bike.
I also have the DS master cylinder, the front brake lever is virtually devoid of free pay with no sponginess.
-
Thank you both for your thoughts "Ted" and "K2-K6". Interesting to read because I have never heard about Brembo pads to our 50+ year bikes before. I was a little suspicious to that "carbon ceramics"-naming. But with your comments I am prepared to give it a go. I will give a revue later on.
Thanks
-
They have a whole range to choose from, that's if you want to move into particular direction, some of which may cause increased disc/rotor wear. The CC offer reasonably rounded performance.
Brembo Motorcycle Pad Materials
Sintered (SA/LA/SP/SC/RC): The standard for modern bikes, these use metallic powders, lubricants, and abrasives fused under heat/pressure.
SA (Sintered Road): Ideal for front street application, providing good initial bite and stability.
LA (Sintered Road - Front): High friction, stable, and offers ~30% longer life than SA.
SP (Sintered Road - Rear): Excellent durability for rear applications.
SC (Sintered Compound): Track-focused, offering higher, more consistent friction for hot, aggressive riding.
RC (Racing): For high-temperature, track-only use, offering maximum friction.
Carbon Ceramic (CC): Designed for comfort and durability, featuring a blueish color, good for all-weather, everyday street riding. They produce less dust and are less abrasive than sintered pads.
Brembo have been quite active recently, also moving into cycle brakes MTB etc.
-
They have a interactive element on their site https://www.brembo.com/en/solutions/for-your-bike/sa-pads which if you scroll down, then you can select different material in comparison on a "distribution" graph to illustrate the properties within each pad.
-
If you think that your K7 is bad, it's got the improved caliper introduced with the F1 with theoretically 21% more braking force than the earlier type.
Maybe it's because I grew up with Japanese bikes in the '70's, I don't seem to be disturbed by the lack of braking power.
-
My view is that of not to focus on the pad material as a utopian answer, but in making the brake work correctly you'll have more choice of pad that may be more suitable for the intended use.
They, all these era fours, have reasonably decent performance ..... if they are working correctly. Think they were all less than 30ft from 30mph when tested in contemporary road test etc.
Virtually all disc system accumulate the same fault, that with how the seals at both ends are maintained and assembled. The earlier posts in this thread give good overview of what to clean etc.
No illusion that they match far more modern equipment, but saying they'll never perform well is wrong in my experience.
Often the first touch and how aggressive that is will be confused with brake power, which ultimately may not be the case.
A correctly maintained system should be able to use various pads with different focus, but not to correct a fundamental shortcoming, more as typical use scenario solution.
The more aggressive friction materials may take greater toll of the disc surface as replacement rotors in more current systems are normal. Less so with these original fit period disc rotors.
-
Thanks "K2-K6"
I realise that what you write is completely correct. If the brake calipers are not working as they should and are adjusted correctly, there can be no braking regardless of which pads are installed.
But I would like to know what I put in the brake calipers and what properties each pad has. I don't like buying a pig in a poke. I refuse to buy NOS or "original" brake pads without knowing how they are constructed. "Original" is not a given advantage for me when it comes to brake shoes.
I've read quite a bit about the CB750's disc brakes on two or three different SOHC forums without Brembo being mentioned before. I've also recently been on Nissin's website and searched. They don't make anything for the CB750 69-76 but they do have alternatives for the F models and up. A quite interesting line-up.
During my search for alternatives to undefined NOS and "original" parts, I have come across the following interesting manufacturers' offerings at this moment:
- EBC FA012V
- Brembo 07HO02-29
- SBS 502HF
Then there is a flood of unspecified brake pads everywhere on the web. It's sad that the sellers aren't more careful about saying what they actually are selling. A lot of it is probably good stuff. Others are best suited as paperweights.
Interesting if the forum members could fill my list with more well-functioning brake pads for our SOHCs.
-
Feel can often be about pad material, too hard and it feels wooden. Organic is normally the best for feel but suffers with dust and quick wear and of course brake fade if used very hard. Sintered are good but can be hard on the discs, still a dust problem though. I'm going to try some carbon pads next, got them on my 1300 and they are great, almost no dust, stop like hell and are kinder to the disc than sintered.
Have you bedded the pads in and removed the old bedding from the disc surface? Makes a hell of a difference if done correctly.
I always thought that brake pad material should match the brake disc material as Odd job stated sintered brake pads can be hard on discs.
On my modern bike ( Triumph 1050 ) the brakes are extremely good as you would expect from a modern bike but I have heard of people using non standard brake pads to give even better performance under heavy braking , unfortunately this has created excessive heat and caused the brakes discs to warp .
Now this is probably not the case on the older bikes because the braking force at the disc is not as great so heat produced is less than a modern machine but personally I would not fit non standard brake pads to my old Honda for fear of damaging the discs .
Please see this information from a brake manufacturer Ferodo :-
Brake pads must match the disc (rotor) material and type to ensure optimal performance, prevent premature wear, and avoid noise. Matching the friction material to the disc ensures proper "bedding-in" and effective heat management, as mismatched components can cause uneven rotor wear or brake failure.
Ferodo
Ferodo
+2
Key Considerations for Matching Brake Pads and Discs:
Material Compatibility:
Steel Rotors: Standard, high-carbon steel discs are compatible with organic, semi-metallic, and ceramic pads.
Ceramic Pads: Ideal for daily driving, providing quiet, low-dust, and durable performance.
Semi-Metallic/Sintered Pads: Best for high-performance, heavy-duty, or racing applications, offering superior heat management, though they may be louder.
Carbon/Ceramic Discs: Require specialized pads; standard steel-compatible pads will not work.
Performance Matching: If you have high-performance, vented discs, you should use matching high-performance pads to handle increased heat, rather than base-level organic pads.
System Integrity: It is recommended to replace brake pads and discs as a matched system to avoid premature wear and brake pulsation.
Quality Standards: While brands can differ, ensure pads meet required safety standards (like ECE R90) for compatibility.
Ferodo
Ferodo
+6
For most street vehicles, matching the manufacturer's original equipment (OE) material recommendation is the safest approach for balanced performance.
Would be interested in what the more experienced people in the group think , I have as I said not deviated from the standard pads for fear of causing damage to discs so my comments are not based on personal experience.
It would however be interesting to fit sintered pads to my bike along with a compatible discs.
-
Interesting "Ken4004"
But what are OE brake pads for our 50+ CB machines. Original it was asbestos brakes pads. I can't just accept that it says "OE" on something I buy in this case.
Even clean organic pads were sold as OE once upon a time. And those made no biker happy - or am I wrong.
Your "Key Consid.... statement feels much nicer to relate to. If all sellers also could explain what they actually are selling, most people would drive with the right type of brake pads fore there type of bikes.
-
These sohc bikes were produced right at the start of the first disc brakes fitted to production road bikes. As well as asbestos being removed from the brake pads, there have been huge improvements in the materials used as manufacturers tested and learnt how to improve braking performance.
I would say that modern pads of the right type for our discs are a big improvement over OE pads.
-
I suppose selecting the appropriate alternative brake pad material that works bests with these older bikes would be best answered by a brake pad manufacturer like Ferodo who spend time researching the best materials for all applications.
Most developments are born from racing and the fruits of these improvements then spill over to main stream bikes.
It would be interesting to see what brake pad materials are being used in classic bike races as I am sure they would like a pad that had half a chance of slowing the bike down.
I suppose the other consideration is that most race bikes will have a total rebuild after heavy duty racing so they are not really worried about getting 20,000 miles out of a set of pads and discs !
Maybe someone in this group has raced or knows some who has raced this age of bike .
spill over into
-
Ferodo has only organic rear set to offer. Nothing for the front. According to my seek on there web sight. Sadly