Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Mikep328 on April 29, 2025, 06:55:59 AM
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Hi All!
Took the 400F out yesterday after a 5 month layup - started/ran perfectly! :) BUT (there always seems to be a "but...") I now find the rear shocks to be less than I'd like. I replaced the old shocks last year with a pair from DSS which fit perfectly and look original however I'd like a pair with improved capability - some adjustment other than the spring tension would be nice.
Any thoughts for something better than the DSS?
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Its the "currently available" that trips up my thoughts on this. Not practical to suggest, but there appears to be some "Ikon" ex Koni design floating around that would be good if available in correct fitment. Ordinarily they were a well designed and made item when sold.
Something else to consider that makes a difference if significantly out of range is tyre pressure, that's if you've not already considered it.
There's usually a load index statement on the tyre to facilitate calculation of running pressure correct for the vehicle its used on. Modern tyre construction and resilience being someway distanced from original contemporary fitment, and can be bone hard if used on mild applications like this.
If you've got those details we can work out a more defined starting pressure to suit the bike which can make quite a shift in ride quality and grip characteristic as well.
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Thanks for the response. I fitted new OEM-size Dunlop K82s last year 300/18F, 350/18R and set the pressure per the owners manual for rider only - 26PSI F, 28PSI R.
Load rating is 47F, 56R
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There should ordinarily be also a load rating on the tyre stating something like " xxxx kg @ xx psi" to be able to calculate more accurately and check the specification.
56 R will give 106mph maximum speed, but will be capable of constant running with a 224 KG payload ..... for just that one tyre !
To calculate competently, the load in kg / at xx psi is the detail needed to extrapolate a valid start point. This may differ from original Honda spec as current tyres are often significantly more capable in load carrying than the original fit, potentially making them too rigid if not checked like this.
It can just make a vehicle seem very harsh in suspension as they don't yeald in normal load situation as the original chassis engineers would have designed for.
Its an interesting practical exercise anyway and can be quite revealing in vehicle dynamics.
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I seem to remember YSS shocks being recommended by a few members on here.
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If you want to adjust damping Ikons are the best but cost as well
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Hi All!
Took the 400F out yesterday after a 5 month layup - started/ran perfectly! :) BUT (there always seems to be a "but...") I now find the rear shocks to be less than I'd like. I replaced the old shocks last year with a pair from DSS which fit perfectly and look original however I'd like a pair with improved capability - some adjustment other than the spring tension would be nice.
Any thoughts for something better than the DSS?
Got Ikon on my CB750F1.
Fully adjustable spring pre-load and damping.
Transformed the handling.
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I am finding the recently fitted DSS shocks a bit in the hard side for my bum compared to the old Hagon shocks that were there before. I need to make or find a C spanner to dial them down a bit and see where that ends up. I need comfort at my age! and I'm probably not going to be tearing about and grounding the foot pegs , or getting my foot trapped in the foot peg on my favorite corners any more.
Regards
Dave
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My 400 had Hagons on it when I bought it and I don't recall it feeling excessively stiff. I replaced them with the DSS shocks because I wanted the stock look...I suppose I could put the Hagons back on and see how they feel... ;)
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Remember you have to give new shocks a few hundred miles to bed in. They always appear to be very stiff at first.
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Decided to try a set of these; totally NOT stock-looking but hey, back in the day we never left motos stock! ;) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285816354145
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I'm currently restoring a pair of Konis I found in a box last year. They may be sold or they made be used, depending on how the restored Marzocchis perform. I'll let you know if they are available if you want.
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Decided to try a set of these; totally NOT stock-looking but hey, back in the day we never left motos stock! ;) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285816354145
I wasted money on DS shockers (pictured below) because after 3 years a seal started to leak.
You can at least repair Koni or Ikon shockers, but cheapo ones are not repairable and get binned.
Anyhow good luck with your purchase.
Skoti
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Decided to try a set of these; totally NOT stock-looking but hey, back in the day we never left motos stock! ;) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285816354145
It will be interesting to see if they fit okay & what you think of them when you have riden the bike.
They do look pretty cool and well finished , please pop some photos up when you have fiitted them.
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Well...I TRIED to mount the new shocks but they will not clear the chain guard when adjusted to their shortest configuration which is still about 5mm longer than the original/DSS shocks. With the guard removed they will fit BUT there is only a mm or two of clearance between the lower spring base and the drive chain - not enough to handle any flex or other vertical movement of the chain. And I would not omit a chain guard anyway so I brought them back home (garage is 1/2 mile away) with the intention of returning them.
However, I am now thinking of trying them again, this time extending the shock so that it will clear the chain guard and therefore the chain. They are very adjustable via a threaded lower mount BUT the longer shock could result in:
1. The rear wheel not lifting from the ground with the bike on the center stand - If that happens, they are a no go for me. I use the centerstand a lot.
2. It may raise the rear of the bike when in the normal riding position which will alter the steering geometry. However that may not happen depending on the spring's characteristics. At its softest setting - as per out of the box - it is considerably less stiff than the DSS shock at its softest setting. And it is a threaded adjustment for the spring tension so it has far greater adjustment range.
The only way to know is to go back and re-try. So I think I'll do that later today. I'll report back... They ARE very nice looking pieces of kit and I would really like them to work!
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I did wonder are you sure the DS shocks are the same length as the original Honda part.
If you have the old original Honda part might be worth checking against them.
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Many of the offering seem to promote the same unit for 400 & 500 is that the case ?
If so, it must mean that the 400 would effectively have too hard a ride to it.
There's not too much point in having much in the way of adjustment for compression damping (that's if it's effective in the first place) as winding that up just takes it toward "boneshaker" as its supposed to move in response to bumps and load.
The rebound however being the more useful in controlling whichever rate spring is needed.
Simply put, the spring rate should change if load total shifts and not compression damping. Stronger spring to carry weight will ordinarily need raised rebound damping to match that.
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I don't have the originals. :-\ The DSS shock length is 315mm center to center which I understand (maybe incorrectly?) was the OEM length. I measured these shocks at the shortest setting which fouls the chain guard and almost hits the chain and came up with 320mm. From working on it yesterday, I'm thinking (without being at the bike to check) that because the spring is larger diameter than the DSS (and I assume the OEM shock) it would require at least 10-12mm extension of the shock to avoid fouling the chain guard.
I believe there is enough adjustment to do that but how it will affect handling/centerstand use is my concern. Only way to tell is to try it and see...
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I don't know the actual length of the original, Mr Giggle saye 315, a search here mentions 320.http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107596.0
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Installed the shocks. It required them to be lengthened to the max allowed per the instructions as well as a bit of chain guard adjusting (bending/denting) to allow them to fit. With the centerstand down, the rear tire mostly clears the ground though it skims the surface a bit. I haven't ridden the bike yet but pushing down/releasing the rear suspension feels much more supple than the very stiff DSS shocks. I expect the bike will feel much more "connected" with the road though, of course, that expectation may or not be met!
Although the info says they fit a CB400F, I would call that a bit of an overstatement. They are NOT a "simply remove the original shocks/replace with these" type of fit they will require some futzing with the chain guard and if you want OEM-type rear tire/ground clearance with the centerstand down, these won't provide it.
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This added to the previous post about 1/2 hour later: IF you are willing to do considerable working with the chain guard, making the clearance area for the shock considerably larger/deeper, the shock could be mounted with less extension, thus allowing more rear tire ground clearance with the centerstand. The best way to do it, IMO, would be to actually cut out the clearance area in the chainguard. It wouldn't really be visible with the shock in place - I doubt it would even be noticeable if carefully done.
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Took the bike out today - the new shocks are a definite improvement over the DSS shocks from a handling/feel aspect so in THAT regard they are, IMO, well worth the price.
However...my earlier statement that a bit of chain guard adjustment coupled with full extension of the shocks eliminated any interference was incorrect. I discovered that despite those steps the outside edge of the drive sprocket was rubbing on the chainguard. The only way to stop this would be to cut out a semi-circular section of the chainguard in the area where the factory "dimples" currently exist. If you try to dent the chainguard further, the dent would rub against the chain itself.
So...at the moment I removed the chainguard temporarily while I further consider this, IF replacement chain guards were available from DSS or whoever, I would buy one and do the necessary cutting. But I will not cut the original chainguard. Might take a look on eBay...
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Picked up a 400F chainguard on eBay and will cut it out pretty much as some Honda OEM chain guards had cutouts like either of the following:
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Some years ago, i bought and fitted a pair of shocks advertised as being suitable for the 400. Fitted them and found that the rear wheel was still kissing the deck when using the centre stand. Looking round at other clearances I saw that the lowered wheel position meant that the rear wheel bolt was now in line with the centre line of the silencer. Not really a problem eh? Ready for a test run, dropped bike off centre stand only to find that the stand now wanted intimate relations with the lower run of the chain. Enough!!! Original units refitted and refund obtained for the NFG new ones. At that time, there were quite a few units available which visibly were exact copies of the OE ones, which I purchased. As an afterthought I did wonder what effect the oversize ones would have on the steering geometry, as they would in effect cause the front forks to be in a slightly more upright position. I have to admit that the new units, combined with the older style Dunlop K82 tyres, and a new saddle can inflict severe punishment on an ancient derriere! Stay upright everyone. Mike.
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I don't know if TEC have restocked their 400/4 shocks made for them by IKON (as I was told). Last I heard was they were too expensive to offer at the prices they selling them for, about £80.
Maybe worth a call to TEC?
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The gas shocks I bought were from Tec "for the 75-79 Cb400F" They work great compared to the DSS shocks, whose springs are too stiff for my weight even at the softest setting. The Tecs have a threaded adjustment so they can vary from literally no spring compression at all to extremely stiff. BUT, as I mentioned, they don't really "fit" the 400F without modifying the chainguard.
I received the eBay chainguard which actually looks a lot nicer than the one on the bike! So I'm trying to decide which one to cut AND trying to figure out what tool would be best suited to making the cutout. I think a Dremel would work well but I don't have one and don't really want to purchase one for a single project. But we'll see.
Of course, one option is to omit the chainguard completely. I never carry a pillion so I don't see any "safety issue" involved but, of course, it SHOULD have a chainguard.
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Actually turned out to be very easy with my Makita cordless jigsaw/metal cutting blade! Yesterday I adjusted the shock length, shortening it slightly to ensure the rear wheel comfortably clears the ground when on the centerstand. Tomorrow, since I have to be at the garage anyway when they come to collect the Kawasaki Z900RS Cafe I sold - I'll fit the cut chainguard onto the bike.
FWIW the "new" chainguard from Bay looks really nice but is obviously NOT an original Honda piece. It is of much thinner stock than the OEM chainguard...and very easy to cut! :)
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Went for a 30 mile ride yesterday with the new Tec gas shocks/cutout chainguard. Very pleased with the performance of the shocks as far as their reaction to road conditions but there is some buzz in the footpegs at the upper RPM range that I didn't notice with the DSS shocks. I don't know why different rear shocks would transmit more or less engine buzz but I'm certainly no shock expert! It's not objectionable, more a curiosity than an annoyance though I'd prefer that it wasn't there.
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My 400 had Hagons on it when I bought it and I don't recall it feeling excessively stiff. I replaced them with the DSS shocks because I wanted the stock look...I suppose I could put the Hagons back on and see how they feel... ;)
Same here and regretting the move so far. I only went for the DSS ones because I didn't want to hack around with a new OEM chainguard. One my bike and on a scrapper I bought 30 years ago both had hagon shocks and lumps hacked out of the chainguard. I did consider new hagon shocks as they have modified them slightly compare to my old ones.
Below is the old Hagon Shocks. If you look at the fork at the bottom there is a short black tubular section before it disappears onto the alloy part. On the newer hagon shocks that tubular section is longer so may have been made that way to clear the chain guard.
Theres no guarantee that the shocks on mine were ever intended for a 400, just what was on it when I got it in 1980.
Regards
Dave.
[attachimg=1]
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The fork at the bottom of those Honda rear shockers should be offset to allow the body to clear the chain guard.
Should be no need to butcher the chain guard.
Maybe this can be seen by checking out the ebay listing for Honda Ikon shockers below.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/599864980 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/599864980)
(I have those successfully fitted to my CB750F1)
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Whilst at Kempton Park last weekend I went to see the guy who used to sell the TEC shocks for the 400/4’s. He's got one pair left, after that there will be no more as TEC are no longer importing them. I've posted his details on here a couple of times before.
He said the pair he has fit several smaller SOHC's so I'm not sure of the length but from memory I think they are 5mm shorter than stock. They are the exposed chrome spring type, not shrouded.
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"The fork at the bottom of those Honda rear shockers should be offset to allow the body to clear the chain guard.
Should be no need to butcher the chain guard."
I totally agree that they SHOULD be offset to clear the chainguard but they are not. I suspect that whoever developed them never actually tried mounting them on a stock CB400F - they just built to spec based on length and the diameter of the upper and lower fittings. They didn't consider the diameter of the lower section of the shock/spring in relation to the chainguard. They cannot, under any circumstances be fitted to a 1976 400F with an unmodified stock chainguard. I ASSUME the chainguard/associated clearances are the same for all 75-79 400Fs but I don't know that.
I find myself in a bit of a quandary - they are definitely a better shock for a person of my weight than the DSS shock but unlike their ad, they will NOT fit a CB400F without modifying the chain guard. TBH, the DSS shocks would probably work OK for me with a softer spring but I don't see that as being available. I would rather have the LOOK of the DSS shocks with the function of these Tecs. Oh well...
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Aye Mike,
Your dilemma is understandable, I first wasted cash on unsuitable shockers from DS.
Few folk want to pay for them, but Ikon will fit your new shocks with springs to suit you at no extra cost.
"Here’s the Ikon difference:
When you order your new Ikons from us, we ask your suited-up weight and that of your passenger.
Suitably rated springs are then fitted to your new Ikons from our vast spring selection.
This provides you with a far superior ride quality.
No additional charge and all part of our bespoke service. Don’t settle for someone telling you “The spring rate will be fine” just to make a sale".
https://ikonsuspensionusa.com/ (https://ikonsuspensionusa.com/)
CB400F
https://ikonsuspensionusa.com/product/ikon-dial-a-ride-7610-1302/ (https://ikonsuspensionusa.com/product/ikon-dial-a-ride-7610-1302/)
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The Ikons are tempting. Expensive but I've probably wasted as much money as they cost fooling around with other items that made no real difference to anything! ;)
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Last week, my riding friend (who has down sized to an XBR 500 from a CB750 due to his damaged hip) thought that he would replace the rear shock absorbers, as the right side was reported leaking at last MOT. As we were out at a bike meeting and discussing the problem, he decided to call DS there and then and enquire about replacements. It appears that they are no longer available, however a pair of NOS items could be found at £486.30 per side!
With a bike worth around £2,000 at best, he found some that were removed, cleaned and tested at a local breakers and they do seem quite good for the £152.50 that he paid for the pair. They are the remote reservoir type and not many companies seem to offer replacements.
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Hagon are supposed to make anything to order
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Well, my wife and I were out for a good ride yesterday - her on her Honda NC750x and me on the 400. I've definitely decided to keep the Tec gas shocks/modded chainguard. The shocks work really well for me. The only reason to replace them would be to keep the stock look but if/when that ever becomes important I'll put the original chainguard/DSS original-appearance shocks back on. Heck, no one but another CB400F owner would look at the bike and know that the shocks/chainguard were not original.
Although not directly related to this thread, I again found this little CB to be the most fun bike I have ever owned for the kind of secondary (and tertiary) road riding we enjoy. I've been riding for MANY years and have owned mostly sport-oriented bikes from 350 to 1250CCs and this 400 is the smallest capacity/HP motorcycle I have owned since I was in my early 20's! I've reversed my young self's opinion that there was no such thing as a car or motorcycle with too much power. I guess that's a function of age/experience/wisdom(?) but I do occasionally wonder if my 400 will do the ton...or at least INDICATE that it can. ;)
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Bike magazine tested one at 104mph back in the day.........It was probably a yellow one 8).
As I got older I began to realise going fast on a lower powered bike is actually better and more rewarding than going fast on a powerful bike.
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"As I got older I began to realise going fast on a lower powered bike is actually better and more rewarding than going fast on a powerful bike."
I totally agree!!! Last year I rode a friend's Ducati V4 Panagali. If I was still a track rider and I was ON a track, I would have loved it. Wick the throttle to the stop and it is basically into the next county in a couple of seconds, road and traffic permitting. I can't see ANY use for it (FOR ME) on the road but he's selling it...because the latest one has 225HP and his only has 207! He's the same age as me so age alone doesn't automatically eliminate the "need for speed." :)