Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Otis on February 16, 2026, 03:05:36 PM
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Moving on from my starting woes I had taken the view that if the bike could be kick started fairly easily I would live with that but the electric start is such a nice feature I'm really struggling to know what to do.
The starter clutch has gone. Being my first bike after a 40 year layoff I bought with my heart and not my head. I paid absolute top whack for the bike because it was in beautiful condition and even though the previous owner informed me that starting can be a bit fluffy he clearly knew there was a problem and I didn't have sufficient knowledge to pick up on it. It has left a bad taste and needless to say we are no longer talking.
As most of you will know the replacement of a starter clutch on the 350 four is an engine out job and not one to be taken on lightly. With enough time I could probably tackle it myself but that's not what I got back into biking for and the thought of it is depressing. I guess a shop would charge circa £1K if i'm lucky.
What do you guys think? Is it worth doing or not?
Cheers
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When I rebuilt my 500/4 in 1995 I didn't wire up the starter motor and thought I would do it at a later stage. 31 years later and I still haven't got round to it. It's so easy to kick over, I have never needed it.
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Hey, it's still a great bike
Use the Kicker,
Enjoy
I have the starter clutch go on my 500,
My mate did it in the frame
No were near that cost
Maybe someone knows if the smaller bike can be done like that
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That's a nice story. May I please ask if you also had a starter clutch problem or did you just decide to always go with the kickstart option? Did you remove all of the starter components to reduce weight as well?
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Out of interest, when you say the starter clutch has gone, I assume you mean it sounds like the starter motor is whizzing over but the engine isn't. In my opinion there isn't very much to go wrong with the starter clutch it's only a sprag bearing. I wonder if the oil is the wrong grade IE too heavy and the rollers are slipping. Either way, why not enjoy the summer with the bike and worry about it next winter. They're not a particulary difficult engine to remove or rebuild and it also gives you a change to check the cam chain tensioner stirrup that often seizes.
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Out of interest, when you say the starter clutch has gone, I assume you mean it sounds like the starter motor is whizzing over but the engine isn't. In my opinion there isn't very much to go wrong with the starter clutch it's only a sprag bearing. I wonder if the oil is the wrong grade IE too heavy and the wedges are slipping. Either way, why not enjoy the summer with the bike and worry about it next winter. They're not a particulary difficult engine to remove or rebuild and it also gives you a change to check the cam chain tensioner stirrup that often seizes.
In fairness I am guessing that the starter clutch has gone. My friend has the same bike and we have swapped starter motors etc. My starter works perfectly in his bike but his just spins out in my bike.
Isn't the oil the same for everything? I have only ever used the recommended grade of oil.
I agree that the starter clutch is a simple mechanism but getting at it is the real problem on the 350 four.
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That's a nice story. May I please ask if you also had a starter clutch problem or did you just decide to always go with the kickstart option? Did you remove all of the starter components to reduce weight as well?
No,
I diagnosed the sprag clutch was faulty,
Got a complete s/h from ebay,
I now know spares are available,
Kick started and took to my friend,
He is a professional bike engineer with his own business,
Job done
Check dear Mr Silver for rollers and springs
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I know its a long way but if you got the engine to gloucester for 8am on a saturday i am free you could probably take it home in the evening, that would be just changing the starter clutch with nothing else, trouble is you frequently find problems with cam change tensioner and that adds time plus if you havent got the necessary bits a wait for parts, pm me if you want to discuss it
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I have some good friends in Wooton under Edge. Is that anywhere near you?
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I have some good friends in Wooton under Edge. Is that anywhere near you?
Not to far away
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A quick reality check .... if you can jump it with leads off a car, then that would give overview of battery health. If it started that way, with the spray biting well, that could indicate a battery condition problem.
Sprags "like" and work better with a quick build of energy to make them bite, lethargic battery can be problematic if it just give a gentle shove.
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According to mr google about 20 miles and 35 minutes(mostly back roads!) I am about 2 miles from junction 12 of m5
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Out of interest, when you say the starter clutch has gone, I assume you mean it sounds like the starter motor is whizzing over but the engine isn't. In my opinion there isn't very much to go wrong with the starter clutch it's only a sprag bearing. I wonder if the oil is the wrong grade IE too heavy and the rollers are slipping. Either way, why not enjoy the summer with the bike and worry about it next winter. They're not a particulary difficult engine to remove or rebuild and it also gives you a change to check the cam chain tensioner stirrup that often seizes.
Much appreciated proposal. Thank you
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I know its a long way but if you got the engine to gloucester for 8am on a saturday i am free you could probably take it home in the evening, that would be just changing the starter clutch with nothing else, trouble is you frequently find problems with cam change tensioner and that adds time plus if you havent got the necessary bits a wait for parts, pm me if you want to discuss it
Please forgive me for probably being naive but isn't the difficult part getting the engine out and back in? Once the engine is out it would seem to be a fairly straightforward job to rebuild the starter clutch?
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I would rather take an engine out of a frame then to do a starter clutch!
Getting the engine out (and back) on a 400/4 is pretty straightforward.
Remove the seat, side panels and tank together with the handlebars, rear brake pedal and footrest assembly, battery and the complete exhaust system (in fact anything sticking out of the right hand side but not the rear shock). Take off the chrome points cover because it will likely get dented and remove any wiring loom connectors to the engine (alternator, starter motor & points)
Remove the rear engine to frame bracket (it has the main earth lead attached to the through bolt) and the engine to frame bolt at the front of the engine on the r/h side and on the lower crankcase. Remove the sump pan and take off the oil pick up strainer (push on fit) and lay the bike over on its right hand side preferably onto something soft with a bit of give. Proceed to remove the front engine to frame brackets and the left side lower crankcase to frame bolt. You can then lift the frame off the engine that will remain on the floor.
Replacement in the words of Mr Haynes is a reversal of the removal procedure!
It sounds like a lot of work but in reality it isn't but I would recommend enlisting a helper when it comes to laying the bike down and lifting the frame away from the engine.
You can access the starter clutch from below if you take the sump and off side covers off and without removing the engine from the frame but it is very hard work trying to work below an engine even on a bike lift.
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Last 400 i did i had to remove a primary shaft bearing(bigish circlip) to move the spacer to allow the strter clutch assembly out, you dont need to do that on the 500.
Apart from that my hands are too big to get in to play with rollers, pins and springs.
Always a good idea to check out the cam chain tensioner horseshoe anyway, if the oil has been bad enough to do in the starter whats the pivot like?
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Many points acknowledged there, thank you.
Perhaps a life of kick starting is not such a bad choice in the end?
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I had to buy a bigger pair of circlip pliers to get that out last time I took a 400 apart. My normal SP circlip pliers just didn't have the strength in the handle, it would actually twist with the pressure. You don't want to be in way of it either if it lets go!
As for the cam tensioner horseshoe, I've never seen one that hasn't had some chain damage. The one sold by DSS is an excellent replacement having a proper pivot pin fitted, a shame the guy who makes them in South Africa and who is a member on here is unable to sell them direct due to the postage charges involved.
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I had to buy a bigger pair of circlip pliers to get that out last time I took a 400 apart. My normal SP circlip pliers just didn't have the strength in the handle, it would actually twist with the pressure. You don't want to be in way of it either if it lets go!
As for the cam tensioner horseshoe, I've never seen one that hasn't had some chain damage. The one sold by DSS is an excellent replacement having a proper pivot pin fitted, a shame the guy who makes them in South Africa and who is a member on here is unable to sell them direct due to the postage charges involved.
Having grown up in South Africa in the 1970's I would very much like to know who the SA chap is?
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It amazed me but the last 400 had black treacle inside, shot bores, bad valves but an undamaged horseshoe and pivoted fine----both retaining bolts needed helicoiling though!
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I've picked up a lot of mixed messages along the way and would love some clarification but only in respect of the 350/4 because I do know that the 500/4 and the 400/4 are different as is the 350 twin.
1) Has anybody actually taken a 350/4 engine out?
2) Has anybody actually done a Starter Clutch repair on the 350/4?
3) Can the starter Clutch actually be repaired/removed/overhauled with the engine in place?
4) What are the problems that arise during the process; I picked up earlier that the timing chain can be a problem?
Thank you
Graham
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I've done a few over the years, both 350/4 and 400/4 (re-built one of these last week). 350-4 and 400-4 are identical in terms of the primary chain / sprocket / starter clutch arrangement.
Whilst you can remove the primary shaft from the engine with it in situ, the primary gear, etc, is still "inside" the primary chain itself. Only way to get this out is with the lower crankcase removed - which of course means removing the engine itself.
No real problems (Haynes manual is pretty good for these), other than maybe previous owner bodges / poor maintenance, and the fact that these things are approx. 50 years old.
IF maintained properly, the 400/4 in particular is an exceptional bike. My current hack (only used in the winter these days) now has over 125,000 miles showing - and still on original pistons / rings yet does not burn oil. The cam chain and primary chains in it have now done over 95,000 miles since being replaced - and do not rattle. 350/4 is a slug in comparison and needs to be worked hard to maintain A-road speeds.
Only persistent problem has been oil weeps from the camshaft oil feed through the head gasket (every 25,000 miles or so), due to the use of crap (and expensive!) sleeve type seals around the oil jets. I am trialling a modification here to see if things can be improved.
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I've done a few over the years, both 350/4 and 400/4 (re-built one of these last week). 350-4 and 400-4 are identical in terms of the primary chain / sprocket / starter clutch arrangement.
Whilst you can remove the primary shaft from the engine with it in situ, the primary gear, etc, is still "inside" the primary chain itself. Only way to get this out is with the lower crankcase removed - which of course means removing the engine itself.
No real problems (Haynes manual is pretty good for these), other than maybe previous owner bodges / poor maintenance, and the fact that these things are approx. 50 years old.
IF maintained properly, the 400/4 in particular is an exceptional bike. My current hack (only used in the winter these days) now has over 125,000 miles showing - and still on original pistons / rings yet does not burn oil. The cam chain and primary chains in it have now done over 95,000 miles since being replaced - and do not rattle. 350/4 is a slug in comparison and needs to be worked hard to maintain A-road speeds.
Only persistent problem has been oil weeps from the camshaft oil feed through the head gasket (every 25,000 miles or so), due to the use of crap (and expensive!) sleeve type seals around the oil jets. I am trialling a modification here to see if things can be improved.
That's really useful information Chris and I thank you for it. I recently came across a local engine builder (Hammer Engine Solutions) who will do the rebuild for me if I take it to him. He charges £60/hr so any idea how long it might take him? I am tempted to have a go myself but would likely spend weeks and could come across problems. Would you think it's worth having a go myself?
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I had to buy a bigger pair of circlip pliers to get that out last time I took a 400 apart. My normal SP circlip pliers just didn't have the strength in the handle, it would actually twist with the pressure. You don't want to be in way of it either if it lets go!
As for the cam tensioner horseshoe, I've never seen one that hasn't had some chain damage. The one sold by DSS is an excellent replacement having a proper pivot pin fitted, a shame the guy who makes them in South Africa and who is a member on here is unable to sell them direct due to the postage charges involved.
Having grown up in South Africa in the 1970's I would very much like to know who the SA chap is?
He's called TTR400 and his website is here.
http://www.ttr400.com/
Does great work.
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I had to buy a bigger pair of circlip pliers to get that out last time I took a 400 apart. My normal SP circlip pliers just didn't have the strength in the handle, it would actually twist with the pressure. You don't want to be in way of it either if it lets go!
As for the cam tensioner horseshoe, I've never seen one that hasn't had some chain damage. The one sold by DSS is an excellent replacement having a proper pivot pin fitted, a shame the guy who makes them in South Africa and who is a member on here is unable to sell them direct due to the postage charges involved.
Having grown up in South Africa in the 1970's I would very much like to know who the SA chap is?
He's called TTR400 and his website is here.
http://www.ttr400.com/
Does great work.
Wow, thank you for that. I'm sure we will have a few stories to share.
Kind regards
Graham
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On the 400, the engine can be lifted out of the frame by two people once everything has been disconnected, breather cover and sump removed. There's no need to lay the bike on its side. Just tape up the bottom frame tubes if you care about paintwork. A small wooden box and battons helps to rest it on when it's half out.
Dave.
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If you're going to do the repair yourself, consider a very thorough clean, upside down on wooden pallet or similar, degreasing with stiff brushes to get into all the details around the crankcase joints etc cleaned of residual dirt/grit that accumulate over time.
You don't want to drop anything into the inverted case when you remove the lower crankcase in getting access to the components.
They're, all these era four cylinder Honda engine, not difficult to carry out this type of repair, simply diligent dismantle and reassembly procedure in getting to the part you need to replace.
With any parts you need to hand plus joint sealant and any cover gaskets etc, probably within two hours is easily achieved for the repair after engine is out and ready to work on. Certainly less complicated than often imagined.