Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: florence on August 04, 2026, 11:11:32 AM
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Last week, my bike started to run a little irregularly. I had a look at my ignition timing and found the thread on points for 1 and 4 had stripped and the points were able to float about. Fortunately, I had a spare back plate and decided to fit it and while there, ordered new points from Dave Silver.
When I assembled everything, I found that the points for 2 and 3 were touching the nut on the end of the crankshaft causing a short circuit.
Looking at the points it seemed that the 2,3 set had a bigger spacer than the 1,4 set. I suspect they had been assembled incorrectly at the factory so swapped over the points arm from 2,3 to 1,4 and vice versa. They now fit correctly without fouling the crankshaft nut.
I don't know whether others have experienced problems like this and also whether there are better quality points available from somewhere else?
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Did you buy the expensive Honda or the cheaper repop
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I didn't see the Honda ones on the website, will look again.
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Sit down before you check price
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He doesn’t list genuine ones but if you search the part number you can find 1-4 at £34.80 a set plus p&p of course. He has no stock of 2-3 points though. Pattern are around £7.50 a set, which I think indicates the quality of them.
Might regret this but I do have a few pairs of genuine TEC points, I was keeping them as a just in case thing. If you want a pair Florence I’d be willing to let a pair go for £50 inc P&P. Pair means both sets of course. Some are still in bags or blisters packs, most are loose but you can tell a TEC set very easily. Checkerboard backplate and stamped with TEC.
Might be an idea to invest in the Hondaman kit as it essentially means the points should last for many years, so long as you remember to oil the felt pad.
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He doesn’t list genuine ones but if you search the part number you can find 1-4 at £34.80 a set plus p&p of course. He has no stock of 2-3 points though. Pattern are around £7.50 a set, which I think indicates the quality of them.
Might regret this but I do have a few pairs of genuine TEC points, I was keeping them as a just in case thing. If you want a pair Florence I’d be willing to let a pair go for £50 inc P&P. Pair means both sets of course. Some are still in bags or blisters packs, most are loose but you can tell a TEC set very easily. Checkerboard backplate and stamped with TEC.
Might be an idea to invest in the Hondaman kit as it essentially means the points should last for many years, so long as you remember to oil the felt pad.
Hi Ken , I have just seen your comments about TEC points and was wondering what parts of the points assembly are inferior and could you get a set of new pattern points and just fit them to the original TEC back plate ?
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I have a set of old TEC points which I removed from the bike during the rebuild and fitted replacement points because I noticed pitting on the faces of the points.
I did however have a little difficulty setting up the new points which were bought from DS, I had no problem setting 1 and 4 but seem to have difficulty setting up 2 and 3 because there didn’t seem to be enough adjustments in the slot.
I therefore assume that I must have done something incorrectly do started the setup again from scratch and still had the same result, I then decided that the points plate on the new points was slightly different so compared on against the other and all looked the same so I ended up just increasing the length of the slot for 2 and 3 points plate to get the correct timing.
All in all a bit of a mystery, what I probably should have done is just use the original TEC base plate and just transfer the new points over.
Has anyone else had this issue with lack of adjustments in the on points 2 and 3 ?
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It’s exactly as you found. Pattern points don’t like to time correctly on 2-3. The only solution is to reduce the points gap on both. That means less dwell angle that it should have. I think the heel on TEC points is longer, no problem with timing those. Plus the construction is far superior.
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Hi Ken , I glad it’s not just me, what do you recommend to set the points gap to in this situation ?
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Lowest permissible. 14 thou I think.
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Ok thanks Ken
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IIRC TEC points have welded contacts, a superior bushing system on the pivot point and some other things. There’s so info on the web about them. Daichi are well known for being bad, there symbol is a 3 bladed propeller. They used to have plain metal base plates but they started doing checkerboard plates like TEC so as to look like those.
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The original Daichi were quite good then several years ago production moved to china, i think, and quality went total crap.
I have several sets of Union points, which were supposedly made in Japan, i asked Mark Paris if he had heard of them and he had but had no idea on quality although had not heard anything bad.
As a one off i would part with a pair for £15 plus p&p, Kens offer is a good one and worth it if you want long term reliability
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I wonder if you just used the TEC 1-4 points if the pattern points would time up on 2-3?
I have 4 pairs of 1-4 in a bag on the coffee table right now. They weren’t cheap and came from American. Postage was very expensive.
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Hi Ken I have the original set of 1-4 points I’ll swop those with the new points and see if they will set up correctly thanks, I’ll let you know how I get on.
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Good experiment. Might be an answer for other members as well. DS still has around 24 sets of 1-4s but no 2-3s. If it works it may just be an answer until he runs out of original points that is.
Be sure to let us know, could be very interesting.
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I have found it impossible to set the timing correctly with pattern points. It seems the only way is to adjust as near as possible via back plate with correct points gap and then reduce points gap until they open at the F mark. If I set then up according to the correct procedure, the points never close. It isn't ideal. Makes me want to consider electronic ignition (shudders).
Thank you for your offer OddJob, I can't really afford that at the moment. I have got some old TEC points which I might try to grind back to goodness by gently removing the pitting.
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would anyone be able to explain what happens if the points gap is less that 14 thou?
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[...] The only solution is to reduce the points gap on both. That means less dwell angle that it should have.[...]
Incorrect. The smaller the gap, the longer the dwell angle. A 0,3mm (0,012 inch) gap corresponds with a 49o dwell angle (set at the 4 cyl scale), a 0,4mm gap (0,016 inch) with 46o.
@ Florence in reply #17 Honda specified: 0.3 ~ 0.4mm (0.012 ~ 0.016 in.)
I like my breakerpoints to have the same gap as much as possible. I therefore prefer a dwellmeter using the 8 cyl scale ( 23o - 24,5o) for a stable reading.
You can (re)adjust the dwell dynamically. I do not recommend to set the timing dynamically. Better set and then check with stroboscopic light. You may need to repeat this more than once.
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Oh wow sue me, I guessed wrong after trying to remember stuff from 40 odd years ago. Principle is still the same, wrong dwell angle. Most people don’t own a dwell meter anyway. Really wish you’d stop recommending stuff, you have absolutely no practical experience to base it on after never being in the trade and tbh most of it is wrong anyway. You can watch as many videos as you want about plastering a wall but it doesn’t make you a plasterer only doing the job does that.
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please be nice to one another.
I was just hoping to find out if I'm likely to damage my engine by having a really small points gap? I am not a mechanic :) just an enthusiastic amateur.
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I have had no problems with diachi stuff from many years ago. The only difference I have noticed is that they get an oxide coating if left for a long time. There were some aftermarket ones floating around where there was a shim either missing or too thin that allowed the moving contact to move up/down on its post making the break point erratic.
To counter the possible corrosion during lay up or going away on holiday I leave a bit of oiled paper between the contacts. Just need to remember is like that before trying to fire it up.
My current set is tec that has been cleaned up at least 2-3 times over the years. Just need to dismantle them and do each contact seperately to keep the contact faces square on. If there's a peak welded on one , take it off with a miniature file first and the work down grades of sand paper down to 800 grit.
The diachi ones are cleaned up and will get swapped in next time as/when needed.
Regards
Dave
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Damage? No Florence, should be fine. Most people set the gap at 12 thou, tbh I couldn’t remember what the range was and whilst I knew I had got the dwell angle wrong I couldn’t be bothered to correct it and it didn’t make any difference to the answer anyway so I just left it.
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thank you for that, it was all very helpful and interesting.
Does anyone have a spare advance retard unit they can measure because I wonder also if my points cam might be worn? I'm interested to know the distance from the highest point to the lowest.
My search for decent points goes on as I have discovered electronic ignition system is £300! I definitely cannot ever afford that.
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It's not. The points heel is far softer and would wear away to nothing before it affected the lobe. Someone is running an experiment to see if fitted just the TEC 1-4 points would help the aftermarket 2-3 to time up correctly. No answer yet. I think the heel on TEC points are longer than aftermarket ones which allows for greater adjustment. It's a theory.
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What exactly are foresaid heels made of. Trespa?
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[...] Most people don’t own a dwell meter anyway. Really wish you’d stop recommending stuff, you have absolutely no practical experience to base it on after never being in the trade and tbh most of it is wrong anyway.
I've been working with dwell- and multimeters since mid 80s, so I have ample experience. The ANWB (the Dutch AA (with the best mechanics in the Netherlands)) had published a test of equipment in the market. Back then all these meters were analogue. In general they were not very good in measuring amps and resistances. They were all good if not excellent in reading volts, tach and dwell. I've never said anyone should have a dwell meter. All I've said in the international forum: if you need to buy a multimeter then make it an automotive one. The extra cost is neglectable.
Based on my experience I prefer analogue meters for reading volts (engine running!), dwell and tach. Reading a dial is intuitive and sooo much easier than hectic changing digits that your brain needs to interpret.
For volts (engine off!), resistances and amps I prefer digital.
My old analogue meter came out best of the test. Swiss made, it was extremely accurate and the big scale shows even the smallest increments. A joy to use.
Anyone is free to test it out for themselves, Oddjob.
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There you go again. How do you know the Dutch have the best mechanics, statistically that's pretty much impossible to say, the world out numbers them by a HUGE amount. Ever see a Honda Japanese mechanic work? Jesus it's an education in itself. They do most of it by fingertips, they don't seem to get dirty either, pristine overalls at the end of the day. I've worked with great mechanics and poor mechanics, one was so good Yamaha UK used to ring him up for advice. I also have an analogue dwell meter, I tested it against the official Honda machine, bloody great big wheel around machine with an oscilloscope. It tested out to within 1 degree, close enough I thought but it was adjustable so I altered it anyway. These are no longer available and finding a working one is rare. Most members on here have no idea what dwell angles are and even less on how to set it, even if they had the equipment. Is dwell setting better than gapping points, yes far better IMO, it ignores face damage for instance to a certain degree. Plus you set it whilst running the engine, far better. No idea why you mention volts and amps on a points thread but it doesn't surprise me, if in doubt prevaricate.
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Best mechanics in the Netherlands. I've corrected.
The addition about volts, amps and resistances was just an extra. Just to inform folks not to expect just anything to be better when it is analogue cq digital. It's just some extra information based on years long experience that I like to share. Anything against communicating experience, Oddjob?
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It's not. The points heel is far softer and would wear away to nothing before it affected the lobe. Someone is running an experiment to see if fitted just the TEC 1-4 points would help the aftermarket 2-3 to time up correctly. No answer yet. I think the heel on TEC points are longer than aftermarket ones which allows for greater adjustment. It's a theory.
The trick used to be enlarging the oval slot on the points base plate allow more adjustment
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Never seen a worn advancer cam, seen rusty ones.
When fitting new contacts they need rechecking at about 1000 to 1500 as the fiber heel will wear slightly to fit cam profile BUT if you get them set right first all you will have to do is open the gap a fraction to get timing correct.
From memory the Honda book specifies 0.35mm or 14 thou with i think 12 to 16 being allowable, i always found that if you took the time and had the patience 0.35mm and firing spot on the F got you a sweet running motor, it takes practice and time because when you rotate the plate(s) the gap alters and resetting the gap alters the timing.
I have rarely used a dwell meter and proved to and apprentice many years ago that the correct use of feeler gauges was just as accurate.
As to getting points, it was cheaper to buy the complete plate if you neede condensers as well but it was over £120, dont know now or even if its available, i have one left for my bike.
Aftermarket condensers are a real crapshoot, some are bad straight out of the box.
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I have a shed load of new TEC condensers if you ever need any Bryan. The points plates seem to have dried up now, some Daichi ones still around though, check before you buy, if you see the 3 propellers avoid.
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Good experiment. Might be an answer for other members as well. DS still has around 24 sets of 1-4s but no 2-3s. If it works it may just be an answer until he runs out of original points that is.
Be sure to let us know, could be very interesting.
Good morning everyone, well that didn’t go well !
I have just done the experiment fitting the Tec points (1-4) to a new base plate and it was miles out and no way of getting to time without a-lot of filing so I think as an experiment it was worth trying but a total failure as parts are a not so mismatch.
The other thing I just noticed is that the new points I bought had the three propellers so not surprised I was having a problem but you live and learn.
So fitting back the new points and going to have to live with a slight misalignment on 2-3 points.
I still have the original tec points assembly so might clean up both sets of point faces and fit the original points assembly back on the bike and see how that goes so a job for the weekend.
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I bought a base plate from Steve at 400 parts that had as new Tec points fitted at sensible money.
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Has he still got some though Ted. I haven’t seen them for ages now, even in America.
Worth a go though Ken, kudos for trying. I may buy a set of Daichi points and dismantle them to compare with the TEC ones. Measure the heel etc. I do know that the pivot point bushing is inferior, think TEC has a bronze bush and Daichi may have a nylon one, something like that, read it once somewhere. Try gapping at 12 years though on both pairs and see if that helps.
As advised, if cleaning the contact faces dismantle the points so you can keep the faces flat.
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I'm going back a couple of years, it was a very good used plate.
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Good experiment. Might be an answer for other members as well. DS still has around 24 sets of 1-4s but no 2-3s. If it works it may just be an answer until he runs out of original points that is.
Be sure to let us know, could be very interesting.
Good morning everyone, well that didn’t go well !
I have just done the experiment fitting the Tec points (1-4) to a new base plate and it was miles out and no way of getting to time without a-lot of filing so I think as an experiment it was worth trying but a total failure as parts are a not so mismatch.
The other thing I just noticed is that the new points I bought had the three propellers so not surprised I was having a problem but you live and learn.
So fitting back the new points and going to have to live with a slight misalignment on 2-3 points.
I still have the original tec points assembly so might clean up both sets of point faces and fit the original points assembly back on the bike and see how that goes so a job for the weekend.
I'm even more confused now. Are there different base plates? Mine has the original one.
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I believe there were two suppliers originally, for advancer & back plate.
TEC was one.
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Daichi used to sell a complete plate as well back in the 70's, but they were decent parts then
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Daichi used to sell a complete plate as well back in the 70's, but they were decent parts then
Also to my knowledge. Dunno what has happened afterwards.
BTW, is this about a CB400F? Then better consult the partlists or CMSNL. I'm still not sure if it was one size fits all. Didn't the CB350F/400F have -333- in the middle of the partsnumbers concerned?
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no, this is about 500/550
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I believe there were two suppliers originally, for advancer & back plate.
TEC was one.
Did Nippon Denso ND make the other one?
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I believe there were two suppliers originally, for advancer & back plate.
TEC was one.
Did Nippon Denso ND make the other one?
Thats the one, I could not remeber the name yesterday, ;D