Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: Lobo on January 01, 2013, 05:16:07 PM
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Wanting any feedback - good or bad - on Stotfold Engineers (Biggleswade) who, on paper, look v.good for a strip down, restoring & rebuild of my tired, but running, 50K 400F engine. I don't have the time (sadly), nor tooling for the work, but am looking for a one-stop service to 'zero time' the engine, including media blast & paint of block etc - top quality work only accepted.
Anyone with A1 recomendations pls note my address as Badingstoke area.
Cheers.
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Hi LOBO
The best guy around for an engine rebuild? Well --there are one or two good guys on the forum, full of good info and help but if you have not got time yourself, Steve Lambley, he is in shrewsbury but worth the travel, the guy is ex honda, brilliant, nice guy, no bullshit just gets on with it,
regards neal
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Used stotfold for a few things. Valve guides and recutting seats. They are very good and a professional outfit. but get a quote in writing first as the costs can change. Their timescales are very fluid and can change, but having said that they are very good.
They do know what they are doing and produce a 1st class product. Have a look at their website.
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Thanks gasman, Seamus. Think I'll be using Stotfold - yep, it was their website that attracted me. I've been in touch, and (understandably) no hard quote possible due they've not seen the engine yet. But ball park figure of £1000-1500 + bits. Yikes. This is for a full resto though inc media blasting / paint etc. Will probably go ahead. Cheers,
Lobo
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Phew!!!! 1.5k + bits , i suppose if you take a look at what you expect to earn a day then realise that labour no matter who it be, builder mechanic, office worker, we all need to draw a wage to live,
Pete
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How long do you spend rebuilding an engine?
That's only 10 man-days at £150 (cf £60-£90 per HOUR at a dealer)
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Pete, Steve... You don't need to make me feel worse!!!
BUT, I work abroad and am home too seldom. Furthermore, I'd be putting the bloody engine in the car day after day to take it here...then there...for the stuff I simply don't have the tools to tackle. To tool up would be an alternative...and a fortune. I really think this may be the cheaper option in terms of my time and visits / bills to individual specialities.
Just had a quote of "about £600" to repaint my tank / Sidepanels for the 400F. Jeese. Won't be going there, but do fully expect that ultimate bill of approaching £500.
And sadly, yup, I know I'll never recover the funds....but it's not about that as we all know.
Although I have told Mrs L...."it's an investment love, trust me!" Ha!
Cheers,
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Didn't want to make you feel bad Lobbo, if they are going to do the work dont have an open cheque book, get a solid quote from them and remeber you will need probably £500 upwards for parts as well
Pete
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Me neither!
I was just asking how many hours those on here would spend rebuilding an engine. If you had to run it as a business (and make a living), I guess £1500 or 10 man days is not unreasonable.
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I'd agree with that Steve and that's how I read your post.
Lobo you are probably overestimating the tooling aspects - assuming this refers to just stripping and rebuilding the engine and not the blasting / painting which many would engage someone else to do. As a student I think I got my clutch out using a socket jemmied over a bent piece of coat hanger. Time and circumstances are something else though and it sounds like you've made the right decision.
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Aye,
Thanks Tom. I thought about that too...I have the basic socket sets, calipers, and so on... but TOO many times have been thwarted by "if only I had such & such"'. So I then go out & spend a heap on tools - which I only use....er...once.
I love DIY / hands on sh*t, and am very able. But I know my limitations, and all too often, having spent too many hours, and too much cash realise it'd have been cheaper / with a better result simply handing it to them that knows...
A tough decision... my missus is a nurse & I liken it to her doing open heart on the cat (rabbit Pete?) ! Possibly a good result, probably not! Leaving ya thinking, why didn't I just spend the dosh......!
Cheers...
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If that money includes the media blasting and repaiting/polishing that would bring the labour cost down a bit but Honda only quote about 9 hours to replace a crankshaft and that includes removal/refitting so does seem steep.
I can totally strip a 400 in about 1-1.5 hors if it's brought to me out of the frame
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I guess the question is if it fits with what you feel you can afford and the job is done well, then it's the right way to go.
I'll build and repair most things but used to have some car gearboxes rebuilt for me as I didn't have the tools or the spares to do it....the service this guy did was above anything that I could achieve at that time...and to me was worth every last penny.
Your circumstances seem to be leaning toward outscourcing it (modern management bo**cks speak) so if you are happy with references then ok......you could drop that much if you bought a new bike in one year anyway.
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All acknowledged....and would desperately prefer to do it myself, but time is the real issue. (I work in Asia and only get home 2/3 days PCM.
It's not only the engine being recon'd, but the gear box, clutch etc - I know many parts off the shelf and will drop in etc.
And I've got to re-iterate that I've stipulated a top class job versus 'just' a strip down & rebuild. I'm after a factory look engine, both inside & out. We're all following Pete's K0 restoration - its no breeze, and patently an awful lot of effort / man hours. Wish my engine would get the same detailing, but even if it gets 1/2 I'll be happy.
Trouble is, every bloody service you 'buy' these days seems extortionate, and when you 'simply' break it down into man-hrs it can all seem a huge rip-off. But from the other guys pov he's got rip-off heating bills, rental, employees wages / insurance, an accountant to try & keep the tax-man happy, everyone biting at his financial heels....it all simply adds up. We don't have those working at home solo in our workshops..
And then of course, you're simply paying for his knowledge / expertise..as folk pay us for ours.
Gawd...I sound to have switched camps!
Cheers.
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I would happily strip, advise and rebuild BUT the part i Can not get into would be the blasting and repainting so it now becomes a split job which is not what you want
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to give some idea as to other prices one local shop by me does a 2 stroke single rebuild at fixed price of £100 plus parts, for that the cases are split, crank inspected - new bearings if needed, same story for gearbox etc, engine is handed back ready to run.
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Hi all,
This is all mushrooming (!), but putting yourselves in my capable but time poor (!) / poorly equipped / inexperienced position just tell me exactly what to do! I have already contacted a very capable home builder offering a 'foreigner' for £800 + parts .... and was sadly turned down (too busy etc). My engine actually runs sweetly enough, tho' with a bit of a rattle - clutch area methinks, I can't imagine its going to throw up bad surprises....and am aiming for one step down from concours.
So, ..I don't have the time / tools to deal with probable sheared studs, possible rebore, valve grinding, gearbox worn bits - to get the engine to the state I want. Basically I'm after a trouble-free one stop service for a mint engine - and as such (reluctantly) accept that I'm going to have to pay for that.
Stotfold 'sell' themselves as a genuine / family run business, and to be fair have quoted a range of £1000 to ....£1500 "for the occasional real rotters we get". We'll have a 'firm chat' on delivery so that the 2 of us know exactly where we stand. I may even mention this forum, and state (along the lines of) that I'll be running a feedback thread. And regarding the comment of poor communication - not accepted, 99% of these forum emails come to this website daily from Brunei. Furthermore, I am communicating with Kent400 (reconditioning my gauges) as tho' he were next door. (Fantastic service, don't even consider going anywhere else for -400F gauges)
Anyone offering a top-notch home '77 400F recon for £800 + parts; I'll drop off a 50K's engine .... & want a factory-finish pick-up in return (no time pressure (3 months?) then please pm me.
Or tell me where to go (!!!) other than Stotfolds ... and the obvious!
Cheers.
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Does anyone have the info on 'Steve Lambley' of Shrewsbury,'engine building',as I'm only around 20-25 miles
from Shrewsbury.I have just had an engine rebuilt by another firm and boy was it expensive,not quite finished yet,
I was bowled over on what costs are involved.I will post more about this when I actually get the engine back home,
the build did include some outside services,blasting,painting,polishing,plus full carb rebuild,even though I supplied the 4 carb rebuild kits. :o ouch.
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Stinking Hippy,
In the meantime ... give us (me!) a clue. Concours...? Predicted cost? Interested because I'm about to committ. or not. Cheers..
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Lobo,Here we go then Full rebuild of motor and carbs £2,750.00. Hopefully there should be a pic of the
motor and carbs here...............
http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad262/oddnedod/HondaCB750motor019_zpsb9f5f088.jpg
http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad262/oddnedod/HondaCB750motor024_zps5c9d162e.jpg
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Just in case someone notices,or asks the question,the No1 choke plate is missing,the guy doing the rebuild
got in touch with me about this,I then stripped a N01 carb off of another bank of carbs,and sent him the choke plate and lifter arm to complete the carb rebuild,all sorted.Not picked up the engine and carbs yet
but I think the pics speak for themselves.
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On the other end of the scale, I just had a kl250 engine rebuilt, the head needed valves seeing to and a new cam bearing machining from bronze and inserting. other then that it was a strip, inspect and reassembe using new parts as needed, cosmetics not done, just a mechanical overhaul mostly replacing top end components. Cost was £270.43 which seems quite good to me given that it included piston rings, and a lot of specialist head work as the cam ordinarily runs direct in the head and the surface was chewed up really badly.
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Thanks SH,
In a month of Sundays I could never achieve that sort of finish, and if the innards are finished tithe same standard you should be well happy. A shed load of cash.. I know, but personally I'm up for that versus £1000 and the nagging feeling "I wish I'd just done it properly".
Looks great - you must be pleased.
Cheers, Lobo
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I know what you mean Lobo,it was a bit of a shock to the pocket,but I know its been taken right down,and
rebuilt all the way up.It needed a rebore,so its now on the 1st oversize .50mm.The guy doing the rebuild only
replaced things that needed to be replaced,if you had seen what condition I had taken the engine and carbs in
to the engine builder,and to what he has done to it,its quite amazing.Well pleased though!
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Don't want to sound too pedantic but 0.5 is 2nd oversize
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Bryanj,no problem being pedantic,I was under the impression it was 1st oversize,so I 've learned
something here today,many thanks.
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just make sure the bloke is genuine, doe's what he says he is going to do, and wont rip you off, if he doe's a good job, and you are happy to pay, go ahead and spend the money, but make sure he is genuine, i sent L A Cooper, £492.00 to do me a job, he just took my money and ran, B........ard.
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Cobra,Sounds like L A Cooper needs a 'visit'.Who is L A Cooper? and whereabouts is this B------d located?
Whats his business??
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Doing a complete engine rebuild on an old engine can be very time consuming. The engine will most likely be covered in tar and cow shit and will take an age to clean before you would even dare remove a bolt. Many of the bolts will have knackered heads and most of the screws will be deformed to some degree. This all takes time to do without damaging the cases.
What is the history of the engine, has it been thrashed? If it has, then the cost of a rebuild is likely to be more than a motor that has spent it's life cruising around. Have you ever looked inside an engine that has sat for a few years? Until it's been opened, you don't know what to expect!
Then of course there is the level of rebuild required. Do you want a blue print or just a reliable, smooth motor?
So, there is the cost of cleaning the engine, stripping it down, costing and sourcing the parts, and rebuilding. Painting? Add more for time and the paint.
I would say £250 to clean and strip the motor.
Then the motor has to be assessed, the parts aquired and then a rebuild, another £250.
On top of that you have to pay for the parts, so for an engine that only requires new chains, piston rings, seals, gaskets and the odd bearing around £500 quid should sort it. On the other hand your motor may need drastic surgery, i.e., rebore, new valves etc. So a basic rebuild could cost £1000 and a more serious contender, around £1500.
Honda engines are well engineered and items like main bearing shells, pistons and bores will probably be serviceable in all but high mileage engines (or thrashed ones) If you want to replace items like this as a matter of course because the engine is apart then start talking big money.
I recently rebuilt a 400/4 and the parts cost £490. The cam chain was just starting to chew into the cases due to a sticking tensioner. A new tensioner is about £100 but the engine owner decided to go for a clean and deburing operation which was completely succesful. So costs can be kept down where possible. It is easy to overdo a rebuild.
So for £500 I will consider rebuilding any of the SOHC fours, painting is an extra £100. You pay for the parts and the paint.
Pics below of 400/4
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A couple of pics of a 650/4 rebuild. If it's worth doing, do it right!