Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: bomber on January 04, 2014, 07:57:23 PM
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Hello,
After successful rebuild of carbs, thanks to this forum (and usa one too), I finally started to sort my bike properly, thought first check and adjust tappets, and while un screwing locknut I managed to brake tappet.
Now, to fix that I have to drill a hole and unscrew remaining bit, my problem is that it seems impossible to drill a straight hole on a angle...
Another thing is after close inspection of a tappet it surface seems very uneven, is this "normal", should I replace them all?
Any advice much appreciated.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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DON'T whatever you do risk drilling it, you will always end up with some swarf loose in the engine, it's really not worth the risk. Take the rocker cover off and do it from underneath, it's very easy on a 500/550 four, on a standard 750 the engine has to come out! So get a rocker gasket and the tappet you need, couple of hours tops even if you've never done it before ;D
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Picture showing tappet as described earlier
[attachimg=1]
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Hairygit beat me to it, take the rocker cover off!
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Thanks!
Sounds much easier then drilling :D
It will also give me a better idea what kind of mess is there.
Think will need to buy tourque wrench :(
In manual it said to slackened off all tappets, why would it be necessary?
DON'T whatever you do risk drilling it, you will always end up with some swarf loose in the engine, it's really not worth the risk. Take the rocker cover off and do it from underneath, it's very easy on a 500/550 four, on a standard 750 the engine has to come out! So get a rocker gasket and the tappet you need, couple of hours tops even if you've never done it before ;D
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Because the rocker shafts which the rockers ride on are fitted into the cover. When you remove the cover all the rockers come off with it, slacking the tappets reduces the upward pressure on the cover making it easier to refit, the broken one will not cause any problems removing the cover ;D
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Slacken off all the tappets so they are not compressing the valves. Not sure where you live, but if it's anywere near me i have a nice 3/4 drive britool torque bar that does the job. Try not to be so heavy handed.
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i have a nice 3/4 drive britool torque bar that does the job. Try not to be so heavy handed.
3/4 drive, that's HGV stuff, and you say don't be heavy handed lol ;D ;D ;D
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It was a joke mate. That's why i wrote, not to be so heavy handed. A 3/8 drive torque bar is needed.
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And before reassembly please read about the correct method using elastic bands...no joke.
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:)
I'm on North London, think it is time to buy torque wrench, not sure what size and make... just had a look at Machine Mart website and think this looks like a possibility http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht141-1-2in-drive-torque-wrench
Slacken off all the tappets so they are not compressing the valves. Not sure where you live, but if it's anywere near me i have a nice 3/4 drive britool torque bar that does the job. Try not to be so heavy handed.
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The torque bar your looking at are not very good, your need a smaller one for tappet nuts. I always use Britool torque bars, but are for professional use. Lester is spot on about the elastic bands, hes not joking this time.
Your not too far away from me.
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A 3/8 torque wrench is a better bet for our bikes as a lot of the specs are below the range of the bigger ones, mostly under 20 lbs ft. I have a draper one which was not too expensive.
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Mike, I did send bomber a PM explaining everything he was getting in a bit of a mess. bomber, once you get your rocker off, check all your tappets for any chips. If you find any that are chipped, check all the valves for any damage.
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Just lost the Brittool 3/8 on fleabuy bummer :'(
I have to make a list of the sockets and spanners and buy good quality ones... don't want to round off any bolts, and torque wrench is high on the list!
Thanks so much for advice so far, would love to get bike back on the road asap.
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A torque bar will not stop you rounding off nut's and bolt's. It will only stop you over tightening them and shearing them off. When replacing bolt's always apply copper grease, but NOT to internal engine parts.
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my only advice with sockets is make sure you buy 6 sided ones,
I borrowed some of them star type ( 12 sided say ) and found they just don't grip.
also impact driver has been a god send
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A torque bar will not stop you rounding off nut's and bolt's. It will only stop you over tightening them and shearing them off. When replacing bolt's always apply copper grease, but NOT to internal engine parts.
....read somwehere that copper grease shouldn't be used where steel bolts are inserted into alloy threads as it increases chem reaction between alloy and steel and thus increases seizability.... some other kind of grase was recommended for these situuations (cant remember what though)... but maybe that was a load of crap ?
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I think I would use something other than copper grease for engine mounts having had the last ones I worked on sieze up so solid that I had to gas axe them out after a year of riding when I came back to removing a copper slipped bolt. At the trail biking place I did some work at they used a mix of waterproof grease and acf50. Copper grease is good where there is heat and steel on steel but that combo of salt water off the front wheel, alloy, steel and electric from earthing the starter - something in that mix was bad.
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I was talking about engine bolts lads. I will start stripping my mates z650b1 engine tomorrow which i built in 1995. I am confident that i will not have any problems getting any casing bolts out seeing i applied copper grease when i built it nearly 19 years ago. I will let you know.
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Hi,
Molybdenum ( dfsm) anti seize grease is a better alternative to copper-slip, and it will take the heat as well, but it is more costly, used it for years in industry without problems, one trade name is rocol, as for torque wrenches, its worth considering "facom" if you find one at a reasonal price
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Thanks for all the help so far, interesting info regarding grease, also, I'm thinking about getting Halfords Pro Torque wrench 8-60 Nm seems to cover all the range on my bike.
Is this tool any good? at £74.99 should be OK I hope.
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&productId=178843&catalogId=10151
Any recommendation in up to £100 price range?
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Thanks for all the help so far, interesting info regarding grease, also, I'm thinking about getting Halfords Pro Torque wrench 8-60 Nm seems to cover all the range on my bike.
Is this tool any good? at £74.99 should be OK I hope.
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&productId=178843&catalogId=10151
Any recommendation in up to £100 price range?
hi Bomber I've got one and am happy with it. Bought it last year to replace the hopeless machinemart one I had
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also bought one and no problem so far
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A bit of an update,
Got my torque wrench from Hallfords for just over £50! I convinced store manager that I'm ehmmm mechanic and he gave me a trade discount card! very happy, bought few other bits and saved about 25% on most items!!!
Now, bad news, 3 screws which holds cover where snapped...
Not sure what to do, to do proper job I should take cylinder block a part and take broken bits out.
I'm kind of tempted to ignore it until end of summer, I'm a bit of scared what type of other issues I will find once the top end is off, plus never done it before.
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Do you have replacement tapper screws Bomber? If not I'll throw a couple in with the seat.
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Thanks, i got them a while back.
I'm after tach gear cap...
Do you have replacement tapper screws Bomber? If not I'll throw a couple in with the seat.
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I was lucky enough to find one on Ebay a while back for £20. I couldn't believe it.
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how about this?
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Tappets look alright, but head has to come off, thinking about it really should fix it properly a specially that there is a oil leak from gasket.
This is such a disaster project, happy that temperature is getting higher so easier to work on bike.
Mike, I did send bomber a PM explaining everything he was getting in a bit of a mess. bomber, once you get your rocker off, check all your tappets for any chips. If you find any that are chipped, check all the valves for any damage.
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They can be drilled out very easy. Start with a small drill bit, and when i mean small i mean 1mm. Then work up in size with bigger bit's. Make sure you keep it straight , true and slowly. Be very careful of any metal filings from going in to the engine. If not confident, DON'T DO IT. Take it to an engineer.
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That broken bolt will come out with vise grips. I can't see what you are point at on the cam.
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Three bolts Les. Two either side of the cam and one on the outside edge.
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I'm afraid Les that is just a dirt in a shape of a bolt...
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Trigger, I'm not going to attempt drilling by hand, i did it in past and it went horribly wrong :-[
Don't have pillar drill so have to find one, it is on to buy list...
Off to garage wish me luck :)
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Block the head off with cloth. Centre punch those bolts and drill with a smaller drill. They will come out they are well oiled. A bit of heat from the drilling will release them. If you can get a reverse drill bit( is there such a thing?) it would be great.
I've never had a problem removing those and I've had a few broken ones.
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You can buy LH drill bits from a decent engineers supplier, but if that don't work get a 6mm helicoil kit to do a proper repair.
Don't forget if you take the head off you really need to do the base gasket as well as its the same nuts that hold it all down
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Good news, all nuts off and no more broken bits!
A bit hesitant about taking cylinder off, I suppose I should just to check if all rings are still there.
Bad news, valves looks a bit tired, there i so much crap on them, can I get it off? What shall I use?
Cylinders are loose now as well, so I guess have to replace that gasket too...
Is DS Engine gasket set, "Complete Top and Bottom end" alright?
Pictures to follow.
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What shall I do any suggestions?
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That has done a few miles but, you are in now. Check, de-coke, check. See how good the cam chain is why your there. I always use Vesrah gaskets, very good and cheaper than originals.
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Cam chain tensioner slider needs replacing, screw is a bit dodgy, tried to wiggle it around it kind of work but plastic has deep grooves and shows cracks.
Trigger, would you scrape carbon deposit and re set valves? Please explain what do you mean by checking, do you mean piston, bore and rings check? As far as I know you need spacial micro meters which I dont have.
Any advice much appreciated.
That has done a few miles but, you are in now. Check, de-coke, check. See how good the cam chain is why your there. I always use Vesrah gaskets, very good and cheaper than originals.
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Pop the valves out, and make sure you remove the two washers under the springs. And soda blast the head, clean the valves up and check for any pitting on them. Lap them back in with with a bit of grinding paste, new valve stem seal. Sounds easy but, if you don't know what your doing. Then don't do it.
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If you leave the valves in you can clean the chambers with a wire brush on a drill.
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Trigger, I wa sloking for the gasket set and I cant find the one you mention, found their website and they don't list cb550 http://catalog.vesrah.co.jp/index_street_f.html
I'm looking for a gasket set and so far wemoto and DS are the only ones I found, any recommendation, or could you let me know where do you get yours?
That has done a few miles but, you are in now. Check, de-coke, check. See how good the cam chain is why your there. I always use Vesrah gaskets, very good and cheaper than originals.
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I have seen a post recently with recommendation for a sealer to use with gaskets, can any one point me in the right direction please.
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171231649452?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Found one. For a sealer i use Hondabond HT.
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Thanks, although I was hoping for it to be cheeper than DS, in stead is 5er more...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171231649452?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Found one. For a sealer i use Hondabond HT.
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Top end gasket set is cheaper. Not sure how far you are going to go on the engine. Gasket sets from Poland are a lot cheaper. Depends on what make you think is good. I have fitted cheap head gaskets before which have blown after 3 months. OEM head gaskets are one of the best but, then you have to buy the rest.
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KR-Motorcycle-gasket-set-TOP-END-for-HONDA-CB-550-K-Four-75-00-new-/171142147373?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27d8dded2d
There you go £26. Good luck
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I'm hoping that I will not need to work on the bottom end...
I'm a bit flustered as every little thing I do seems to have make more trouble, I'm simply trying to work out how to save few quid and since I need few other bits it makes more sense to get it form DS and save 5 or 10 pounds on postage.
I can't work out if set form DS has same items as the one you kindly sent me link to.