Honda-SOHC

SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Drew400 on October 06, 2014, 08:31:03 PM

Title: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Drew400 on October 06, 2014, 08:31:03 PM
Hi all,

I will preamble this new thread with the announcement that I'm about to start my engine rebuild. Regular readers will know that this is a first for me and so I'm ever so slightly nervous of turning my restoration project into a piece of non-running living room art!

So, here's the first in probably a long series of questions: should I be using a jointing compound to stick the crankcase halves, etc. back together? If so, what substance do you recommend?

Cheers,

D.

Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: mickwinf on October 06, 2014, 09:03:06 PM
I used blue hylomar, a very thin smear is all that's needed.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Lynx on October 06, 2014, 09:06:49 PM
I'd definitely use one. I used Loctite 5922 non-hardening flange sealant. I think Yambond is the preferred stuff.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Drew400 on October 06, 2014, 10:00:22 PM
Thank you both.

Cheers,

D.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Trigger on October 06, 2014, 10:02:53 PM
Hondabond but,Hylomar is cheaper ;)
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Bryanj on October 07, 2014, 08:41:45 AM
Ordinary silicone is OK but ONLY if used VERY THINLY so that there is NO squidge into the crankcases
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Clem2112 on October 07, 2014, 09:27:43 AM
Used Three Bond ... They say it's the same as the factory stuff.

No leaks to date.

Other threads on this ie which faces to use it on etc.

I used a small syringe to apply it sparingly(no needle of course)
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: UK Pete on October 07, 2014, 10:10:57 AM
Three bond for crankcase halfs, a light coating of hylomar on all the others, that is my choice, stay away from silicon as it sqeezes out on the inside and snaps off clogging up the oil pump gauze
Pete
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Clem2112 on October 07, 2014, 10:44:58 AM
I can remember when orange silicone rtv was all the rage ...mostly on side cases....nobody would spend cash on new gaskets.
It was ahead of its time that high viz look !  ::)
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on October 07, 2014, 06:50:00 PM
The worst was in my opinion bloody red hermite saying that if you was buying a bike you saw it and knew what a bodge job
Cheers
Bitsa
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Drew400 on October 07, 2014, 06:59:17 PM
A most enjoyable and illuminating thread (or is that a smear?).

Cheers all,

D.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Lynx on October 07, 2014, 07:44:39 PM
Hahaha. That is very true Bitsa.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on October 07, 2014, 07:51:14 PM
Drew
Like the smear bit
Cheers
Bitsa
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: K2-K6 on October 07, 2014, 09:51:59 PM
While I appreciate and take note of Bryan's advice of silicone, I wouldn't get that anywhere near any engine unless it was absolutely specified in the manufacturer build instructions.

It is a very useful material for some applications but just not in these engines with small oilways, and as Pete says you get alot of stuff on the oil pickup. I got a picture of one I took years ago of the oil pickup in a Z650 that looks like a pizza there are so many coloured bits stuck to it.

If all the surfaces are good condition then most of any sealant you put on them gets squeezed out so as the others say only the smallest amount is required of whichever one you choose.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Bryanj on October 08, 2014, 05:59:42 AM
As one who worked on these for many years in the trade, long before you could lay hands on the genuine Honda, or Yamaha, stuff we used RTV all the time and if used as said you dont get any on the filter screen or in the oilways
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 08, 2014, 06:18:31 AM
As one who worked on these for many years in the trade, long before you could lay hands on the genuine Honda, or Yamaha, stuff we used RTV all the time and if used as said you dont get any on the filter screen or in the oilways
+1 on that Bryan, I used to use it ,as it was all there was around and a revolutionary product in the 70's. Suppose there are far more ' forgiving' compounds around today though. When I put my latest engines together soon I will be on a new learning curve as what's best to use. I must admit, I too have seen oil holes blocked with orange silicone on PO 's rebuilds but I only ever applied a smear as knew the pitfalls.

Cheers .. AshD
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Drew400 on October 08, 2014, 08:21:25 AM
I can take some comfort from all this advice in that, whilst I have discvovered plenty of old damage inside my poor old engine, there's not a hint of any old sealents, etc.

It seems that I'm about to change all that... but only with the teeny weeniest application, as advised!

D.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Trigger on October 08, 2014, 05:03:02 PM
You may laugh boy's but some years ago i had a engine in for a re-build and the casings had been put together with chewing gum. Do not ask me what brand but, the engine had no leaks.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Clem2112 on October 08, 2014, 06:32:24 PM
Chewing gum has many properties and can as we know survive for many years on pavements etc.

An aircraft maintenance fitter told me he found plenty of redundant rivet holes plugged with the stuff then painted over...
On a USAF  F1-11 bomber !
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: bike-pusher on October 09, 2014, 09:19:07 AM
Chewing gum is also known for being petrol-proof.  Many a vehicle in WW2 had a holed fuel tank plugged with the stuff.  Probably some aircraft as well.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: K2-K6 on October 12, 2014, 09:51:29 PM
Bryan, I wasn't intending to shoot you down on the silicone, suppose I've got a bit of a mortal fear of it having opened up some really grim rebuilds in which they'd just used so much of this stuff that it caused more problems than cured anything.

So sorry for putting you on the spot and  to offer an apology for making it sound like that.

Nigel.
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: Bryanj on October 13, 2014, 08:33:57 AM
No offence taken mate, I have seen a filter screen nearly bunged with excessive Hylomar before now! i think it comes from the old Brit iron where if the goo wasn't at least 1/8 inch thich you still got leaks---still got them then most of the time!
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: taysidedragon on October 13, 2014, 11:44:19 AM
As a long term rider and sufferer of old Brit bikes I had plenty of experience of rebuilding engines!

I usually used Red Hermetite(because that's what my dad had in the shed  :D) and never had any problems.

I think most problems back then were caused by ham-fisted owners levering cases apart and damaging the joint faces. Then they used far too much sealant to try and fill the damage. A lot of owners never seem to have heard of tightening down in an even sequence to avoid distortion and WTF is a torque wrench?
No wonder they leaked.  :-\
Title: Re: Should I use jointing compound?
Post by: K2-K6 on October 13, 2014, 10:45:22 PM
I don't think many people think it through properly in that the better condition and more precise the engineering of the joint then the less sealant it usually requires to prevent it leaking.
I know we repeat it on here, but for some it's not easy to determine just how little sealant you need especially if they are new to this stuff.