Author Topic: That sickening feeling we've all had....  (Read 2994 times)

Offline PHILIP2908

  • SOHC Associate
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
That sickening feeling we've all had....
« on: June 20, 2016, 07:06:33 PM »
DK/DS special progress: had the head skimmed to try and solve the massive oil leak I had.
Head now back on and just bolting down the cam carriers...........when........we all know it...........the resistance suddenly disappears. One stripped thread; well 3 actually.
I think this is due to some abuse its had in a previous life.
I was using the figure of 8ft lbs as given in the Haynes manual for 6mm threads.
Q: has anyone got any experience of Helecoils in an alloy head? The screw holes look to be blind and as long as I cover up the oil holes and valve springs I should be OK....
Whaddya think?
All advice welcome.
Thanks in advance.
1974 Honda XL250 K0 - Silver - owned for 32 years. Not running at the moment
1972 Honda CB750 K2 - Now candy apple red - Ex USA, a DK special - needs a lot more work than I thought - very quickly becoming a DS special...

Offline Trigger

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 8436
  • Engines built on reputation, not advertising.
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2016, 07:11:08 PM »
These de-thread all the time and I helicoil these every day.

Offline UK Pete

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 2696
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2016, 07:13:23 AM »
Yes well known for there weakness,  helicoil is cheap and simple, just make sure you cover up well and hoover the swarf up
chin up fella this can be very disheartening especially after all the other shite you have had, you will get there in the end
pete

Offline ginger_jim

  • SOHC Member
  • Posts: 116
  • Anyone for a Guinness?
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2016, 07:23:28 AM »
Yup....had to do a couple in mine too.  Then the camchain adjuster bolt threaded too.  I bought a cheap kit although ive lost the special drill bit somewhere along the line :-(  For a 5mm tap is the drill bit something like 4.8mm?

Offline matthewmosse

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 2161
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2016, 11:13:46 AM »
Some heads they all let go, seems to depend on the previous life of the engine, Helicoils are ok as a fix but can wind back out again sometimes - I have been told timesert is a better alternative that adds serations to the insert so it is less likely to wind back out with the bolt. I have yet to try a timesert as I have a fair number of helicoils to use up.
Got a 500/4 with rust and a sidecar and loadsa bits. nice and original and been round the clock

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 7398
  • Mad Scientist.... more power Igor ! ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2016, 12:52:40 PM »
Some heads they all let go, seems to depend on the previous life of the engine, Helicoils are ok as a fix but can wind back out again sometimes - I have been told timesert is a better alternative that adds serations to the insert so it is less likely to wind back out with the bolt. I have yet to try a timesert as I have a fair number of helicoils to use up.

I have heard that 'Timeserts' are better too Matt.. Helicoils used to be made near me in Beverley by Armstrong's..my mate Roger used to run the production line there in the late '60's . They also had an in-house  hard chroming line, as they made shock absorbers too.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline royhall

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 3384
  • Keep biking I'm not quite bankrupt yet
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2016, 02:11:43 PM »
Don't know its technically correct but I usually loctite the helicoil when I'm inserting them. Not had a single one ever come out again since I started doing that. Had a few before though. Never had to actually remove one, so that may be where my loctiting policy will go wrong. :-[
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 02:14:24 PM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10828
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2016, 02:12:56 PM »
Timeserts or keenserts but you may have to order the tap for the outside as they used to be 10mm but the odd pitch

Offline PHILIP2908

  • SOHC Associate
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 08:01:03 AM »
Hello again, Happy to report job done. Got a 6mm helecoil kit off ebay and set to drilling holes in my cylinder head. Blimey, that alloy is like butter; swarf flying everywhere....
Had to fix 3 of the 4 threads, wound the helecoils in with a bit of Loctite (as suggested here - thanks) and another nervous moment when torqueing up the cam carrier bolts. But all went fine, so happy days!!
Thanks for all the confidence inspiring advice as this was a job I wasn't looking forward to.
Regards,
Phil d'A
1974 Honda XL250 K0 - Silver - owned for 32 years. Not running at the moment
1972 Honda CB750 K2 - Now candy apple red - Ex USA, a DK special - needs a lot more work than I thought - very quickly becoming a DS special...

Offline Trigger

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 8436
  • Engines built on reputation, not advertising.
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 08:09:18 AM »
Butter, more like margarine  ;D I don't even drill them, just straight in with the tap. Should of done all of them as I have known these original threads to strip under engine vibration 

Offline UK Pete

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 2696
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2016, 04:54:37 PM »
Well done phil
pete

Offline Jontyp

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2016, 02:41:12 PM »
Just a bit of info if anyone wants it. When producing threads in soft material (the alloy used in these engines is a perfect example  ::)) it's often best to use a roll-tap (as opposed to one that "cuts" the thread). I would suggest that is true even for the wire-thread insert tapped hole. A roll tap does what it says really in that it has no cutting edges but compresses the material structure to form the thread resulting in a stronger thread. I haven't checked to see if roll taps are available for helicoil inserts but it might be worth it (I'll certainly be checking when I come to strip/rebuild my motor.

Offline Trigger

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 8436
  • Engines built on reputation, not advertising.
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2016, 02:57:11 PM »
Never heard of or seen a roll tap for coils. I always run a M6x1 tap down all the threads, and if it pulls any threads then a coil is required ;)

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10828
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 03:02:44 PM »
Seen a roll form for spokes but never a tap

Offline Jontyp

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: That sickening feeling we've all had....
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 09:12:14 PM »
Well, there you go, you can indeed get roll taps for helicoil insert threads.

http://www.engineering-supplies.com/sub/332/metric-helicoil-sti-hss-taps-/

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal