Author Topic: OE versus Pattern?  (Read 624 times)

Offline TrickyMicky

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OE versus Pattern?
« on: November 06, 2020, 11:27:56 AM »
Without wishing to open too many old wounds, a condensed history of my 400.  It's a 1976 model, purchased in 1988/89, with 13,800 on the clock. Had owned various Hondas from 70cc to 750cc ( 2 of those beauties!) but never a 400! Had been 7 years without a bike and my mental wellbeing was suffering.  Travelled to Oxford to collect bike, filled the man's open hand with lots of money, (remember that stuff?), and rode home to East Anglia feeling like a dog with two whotsits.  Regularly washed and leathered, but I bought it to ride, not to show.  2 years and it started to rattle, AHA, camchain! I've heard all about these. Into unlit wooden garden shed, and out with the spanners, unlike the 750, it can be taken apart in the frame! Oh such joy. Also unlike the 750, the barrels are not secured to the crankcase, which meant that they lifted when I persuaded the head to let go. Oh look, the base gasket has split, Oh goodness me I said. Ok, barrels off accompanied by 2 pieces of broken piston ring falling into the crankcase which I hadn't protected. Ok, engine out, bugger it, the sump has to be removed first! Finally engine out, upside down on bench (old sideboard) ready to split the cases, and yes, the 2 bits of piston ring  fell out!!!!  I questioned the bike's parentage, and went in for my tea.
    The tea break took 9 years, during which time the shed roof had leaked meaning I lost a complete exhaust system, camshaft and rockers to the elements. Got quite a lot of new stuff from a Main agent in Dagenham, but he suggested that for some of the other bits I should contact this chap in deepest Suffolk who had set up a business selling new/old genuine parts. Magic.
   Finally finished in 2002, now living in Suffolk, 20 minutes from Leiston!!!!!  Bike was stirred back into life and obtained a nice new MOT.  Over the years, bits were replaced, pattern front forks from DSS, perfect, correct height handlebars and new switchgear (OE).  A few years ago I decided that the 1970's chromework was looking a bit shabby, mudguards in particular, but the metal was still very good, so re-chroming was undertaken by a restorer near me, and WOW, the finish was superb.
     Coming right up to date, I have just fitted a complete new front brake system apart from the disc, all pattern bits apart from the banjo bolts and washers.  It all fitted perfectly, especially on the 2nd attempt when I eventually got the top flexible hose the right way up!  A few bits of skin missing, but still got all 10 fingers. My original re-chromed 1976 front mudguard was showing quite a bit of rot by the bracing piece, my restorer friend told me that the plater does not do metal repairs, just plating, and the cost of chroming had gone ballistic. Lo and behold, on a well known auction site, there just happened to be some unused unopened OE parts for a 400, including would you believe, a brand new front mudguard and stays!!!  It was a case of MUST HAVE, and may my piggy bank R.I.P.  This week I decided to fit the new guard, and carefully opened the still sealed original packaging to reveal this 1970's chrome masterpiece in all its glory, Hmmmm??  Shame my original part had failed because the existing chrome plating knocked the OE new part into a cocked hat.  It was and absolute b-----d to fit, the loop that holds the brake pipe had to be bent to be anywhere near the correct position, and the enclosed loop for the speedo cable isn't much more than a piece of chromed wire that's been tacked on, compared with the old version which is formed steel fully welded into position. When finally all bolted up, the front of the guard had to be forcibly twisted round to give some semblance of looking in line.When it comes to fitting the stays, comparing the finish, ther;s a possibility that the originals might be going back on.
   So, OE or pattern?  I think that we have to remember that OE parts were manufactured at least 40 years ago, and on some parts, mainly cosmetic, this could have an effect. Happy fettling, and stay safe. Michael.

Offline TrickyMicky

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Re: OE versus Pattern?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2020, 11:37:35 AM »
A quick PS to this diatribe, when I replaced the exhaust system some years ago, I obtained an OE one from Silvers, in those halcyon days when they were available!. The first two sets of front pipes I took back because they didn't fit properly, on one of them two of the down pipes were actually touching each other. Great service from Silvers, who allowed me into the warehouse to look at a selection of front pipes and choose which one I wanted! I was told then that they probably wouldn't be available much longer, as Honda were not too interested in manufacturing small product runs for obsolete machines, and the lack of quality was beginning to show.

Offline Athame57

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Re: OE versus Pattern?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2020, 01:20:49 PM »
One day in the decades to come there will be a CB400f made entirely of pattern parts! So will it be a FORGERY?  ;)
I brake for animals!
1978 CB400F2 called Elen.

Offline TrickyMicky

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Re: OE versus Pattern?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2020, 03:46:49 PM »
Your future 400 made  entirely of pattern parts will be a much sought after replica!!!

If you get one that's been constructed entirely from genuine OE new/old parts, then it would be as original as Trigger's broom!!!

You pays yer money, you takes yer choice.

In the world of steam railways, there is a locomotive named "Tornado". It was built in the 21st Century in Darllngton, using the same drawings/design and methods as the original, but the purists insist on it being classed as a replica. They will then tell you that if you want an original, you should look to the Flying Scotsman, which has had countless new boilers, wheels, chassis members, and cylinders, the only original parts are the name and number. Funny old world ennit?

Offline Athame57

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Re: OE versus Pattern?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2020, 03:59:10 PM »
The Cutty Sark is a bit like that too...that is why they went to so much effort to keep what is original left...'we don't want to build a replica by stealth' they said. I've got some of her original wood in my house!
I brake for animals!
1978 CB400F2 called Elen.

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: OE versus Pattern?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2020, 09:01:22 PM »
In the various dealership car parts departments I have worked in we used to use the description OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer - that implied it was the same part but boxed by the part maker (e.g.Brembo) rather than the vehicle brand (e.g.Mercedes or Vauxhall) however there was a oxymoron here.

Interestingly OE parts were a different (generally much better) specification to a manufacturers replacement part supplied as a service part or for spares. e.g, back when they were new a set of replacement brake pads for a Carlton were around £80 for a set of fronts branded as AC Delco. An OE set of front brake pads from Vauxhall were over £200! They marketed the AC Delco brand to compete on price with aftermarket brands but they were an inferior specification to the parts originally fitted in the factory. The reason for higher specification OE was to ensure a new vehicle had a chance of not needing parts replacing until out of warranty.

A rear lamp lens for a Mercedes was boxed as a Mercedes part the OE lamp would have a Mercedes Star stamped on the part. Mercedes were not in the game of diluting their reputation by selling you the same lamp made by Bosch supplied in a MB box. If a MB dealership is found to be selling or fitting  parts not supplied by MB parts based in Milton Keynes even if they were OEM they risk losing the franchise or facing a hefty financial penalty.

Interestingly MB actually lower the price of service items once a model is out of production to avoid losing out to OEM suppliers.
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Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Athame57

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Re: OE versus Pattern?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2020, 09:27:34 PM »
I've raised the subject on Quora and there has been an interesting response too....https://www.quora.com/If-a-motorcycle-was-built-entirely-of-pattern-and-secondhand-parts-would-it-be-a-forgery
I brake for animals!
1978 CB400F2 called Elen.

 

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