CB350 1971 Restoration Project

[Menno]

I would like to add a comment on the paint story.

Using a candy only works if the base coat is reflecting.
By reflecting I mean a metallic layer or a flake.
Painting a candy over a plain colour takes away the typical candy effect.
Without this effect you might as well simply use a plain colour. It is easier to paint and the effect is completely the same.
That is why a plain red like light ruby red is a plain colour and no candy. There is no benefit at all - it only makes working with the colour more difficult.

For instance; the first Kawasaki z900 with the iconic paint in green yellow or brown orange is in base a black and white tank painted over with candy yellow or orange. However the plain black and white did not reflect anything at all so the painters found that they had to add metallic and pearl to get this effect which is quite difficult to paint. Without the metallic and pearl added in the candy the painters could simply have used plain yellow and a green metallic (or orange and brown metallic)

Point is: yes you can use candy ruby red over white - but it is actually useless for the candy effect. Therefore a plain red is easier and cheaper.
But don't let me stop anyone who would try it his or her on way.

Doing stuff your own way is modern and has huge benefits someone told me.
(And guys - girls I hope you all haven't lost your sense of humor jet).

[Toko_Jo]

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[BenPowell]

I tried all sorts of solid reds including the stuff that RS sells but it didn't have the 'hard to describe' glorious finish of the NOS  Light Ruby Red part I have.

One for example was a modern red paint which in other forums is regarded a close match for the light ruby red, but honestly it just didn’t have the same depth of colour. To be quite honest, it looked dull and flat, as you would expect from a solid colour paint.

Honda were well into solid colours in 1971 so why experiment with candy over white base when they could just have used a close match solid colour.
It was obviously a problematic finish for Honda (or their sub contractor) because my tank was definitely original and had been painted 3 times ( posted a pic earlier).

The CB350K in Light Ruby Red  never sold in the UK. All of the imports are sun faded 52 year old paint finishes , So it is difficult for anyone in the UK to appreciate the deep rich original finish.

The candy top coat I used is Max Meyer M277 (a modern Honda colour, which is normally used with its associated deep-gold M277 pearl base-coat.

I also tried seven different engine enamels in silver that Ash loaned me and decided on the Dupli-Color DE1615 stuff as it was the closest match I could find to the original factory finish. It's temperature spec will not be a problem because the head and barrels are unpainted on my model (and also the lower half of the crankcase).

[Menno]

(Attachment Link)

Well this is also not true:

[Menno]

Honda did not only use white as a base for light ruby red.
Honda also used orange as a base. Since it is much closer to red.

Candy ruby red over orange woild make a much darker colour.

[Toko_Jo]

Honda did not only use white as a base for light ruby red.
Honda also used orange as a base. Since it is much closer to red.

Candy ruby red over orange woild make a much darker colour.

They DEFINITELY did use white base on the CB350K3 . I have seen Ben's original tank (sun faded badly). Are you saying the official Honda paint bulletin  from the early 1970's  (attached) is incorrect?

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[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Even Honda made errors in documentation - the clutch cable bracket on a 400 is listed as a brake part!

I'm guessing translation from Japanese to English is a potential for errors.

[Toko_Jo]

Even Honda made errors in documentation - the clutch cable bracket on a 400 is listed as a brake part!

I'm guessing translation from Japanese to English is a potential for errors.

Just take a look at the tank pic in the previous post    It's definitely original by the way before anyone queries it.

[Oddjob]

Just a comment here but any chance the 350 white referred to by Honda USA is a pearl white? that would give the reflective properties that Menno says they need without saying that Jo and Ben are wrong about the white base coat.

[Toko_Jo]

Just a comment here but any chance the 350 white referred to by Honda USA is a pearl white? that would give the reflective properties that Menno says they need without saying that Jo and Ben are wrong about the white base coat.

CB250/350K0/K1 (1968->1969) white is solid white. It's a cross between Ford Frozen White and Ford Diamond White. I mixed those two 50/50 % and it was spot on compared with a NOS part.

[philward]

This is the RS paints supplied Candy Red on the 350k0 that I am in the process of building - different colour but as with all my previous builds, I'm pleased with the paint from RS

Sent from my moto g(50) using Tapatalk

Picture quality doesn't do the finish justice (sent via tapatalk)

[Menno]

Sorry I didn't state more clearly what I ment.
What I ment to say was that with some bikes the basecoat was white and with some other basecoats were orange.
I simply wanted to say that for the final result  (light ruby red) the base coat was not very important - as long as it was in the colour spectrum of the reds.

Now at no point I would say that the paint on the cb350 k3 is not original.
In my opinion it is - I am 100% agreeing on that.
It is interesting to see that after a problem the red layer the tank was returned to the beginning of the paint process and started with white again.

The reason this could have happened with this red tank this much is probably a starting painter with not much experience, or maybe a bad monday paintjob.
Another reason is that red - also pain red - is not easy to get correct in one thin layer. Probably the painter overshot causing a runner in the paint.
The thin layer would not give much room for repair, so after the runner was sanded out white would almost certain be showing again.
Easiest way to repair that was to simply start over.
Repainting a couple of times doesn't suggest this is a candy paint though.
A 70's plain red was not covering at all, that is why a base of white or orange was needed.
But even today it is quite common to use these colours as a base for red paint.

Now on the documentation - for some reasons getting colours correct in mechanical books or part books wasn't really important. Sometimes they were so insignificant to the writers of these textbooks they (or he or she) didn't even know the names of the paint.
I had a rather strange conversation on the French forum on which colours were delivered to France.
The French manual only stated the following colours for the 750: red, blue and yellow. Antares red was marron.
And thats it. Candyu blue green? - Bleu. Planet blue? - Bleu. Candy saphire blue? - Bleu.
In the Netherlands the pc50 was only available in blue and red. Everyone - and I mean everyone had a green one.

In the outtake of the manual above it is mentioned that all candys (except candy garnet brown) have a silver base coat.
Which would be very difficult for candy jade green and candy antares red for instance.
I only wanted to say that if the first point is not correct could we than imagine the third point also not to be correct?

Interestingly enough I have not seen Honda using pearl at all in the late 60-s and the 70's. I could be mistaken.
Unlike Yamaha and Kawasaki who used pearl abundantly in many paints.

[BenPowell]

Hi everyone,

Bit of an update but also in need of some advice.

Finally, the engine was fired up on the 350 and managed to get it to run for a little on the choke but that was about it. I ended up taking to carbs off and found one of the floats filled with petrol so hopefully that’s the only issue. I had checked the floats a while back and they seemed okay.

While it was running i was trying to adjust the mixture screw and it didn’t really seem to have much of an impact. So not too sure what the issue there is? Air leak maybe?

Next thing is the clutch seems to stick together, so tonight I removed the plates soaked them and re-assembled, the clutch disengages when the lever is pulled but the plates are sucking themselves together, and take a shock to release them. Is that normal or should you be able to pull the clutch and turn the back wheel by hand freely?

Other than that though the bike is pretty much compete and I’m currently waiting for my V5 to arrive in the post, I’ve also passed my test now so as soon as it’s done I can get it insured and go for a ride

Cheers everyone,

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Clutch action does not sound right, clutches can stick when left unused for several months but not every time.

Might be your clutch cable is sticking.

[philward]

I'm at the carb tuning stage with my 350 Ben (next week as going away till next week) - tuning seems basic. Have a look at page 60 in the workshop manual (in Ash's dropbox)
My clutch was dragging a bit too but not test rode it yet - have adjusted most of the drag using the screw and nut adjustment.
I think Ash may be the man to ask!