2 Stroke Oil ...in a 4 Stroke?

[Lobo]

Apologies if this has been covered before, but asking if there’s any mileage (!) in adding a drop of 2T into the tank of a rarely used 4 Stroke? (I don’t mean for storage purposes only, but actual running)

If it is deemed that such a practice would aid long periods of disuse - what mix ratio would be suggested?

If a no-no.... why?

Intrigued; I’m rarely riding my SS50; and to boot have a 4 Stroke outboard which suffers a sticky valve / isn’t getting the action it needs.

(I’m obviously avoiding ethanol additive fuels btw)

Ta...

[Orcade-Ian]

I've not tried 2t in any of the bikes but regularly treat them to Redex - yes, I know that many consider it as 'snake oil' but it definitely works for me.  My previous 400/4 would end up with sticky float syndrome if not used for a while but behaved itself following a good glug of Redex.  The 1500 Wing runs far smoother and starts easier after dosing too.  I also use it in the tractor mower which has a big V twin Kwacker unit.
If you have a Costco nearby and someone with a card, it's often on offer in a 4 pack but don't forget that VAT is added at the checkout!

Ian

[K2-K6]

I can't see any particular issue with using 2T and would try at 150:1 to asses.

Anything like this would be expected to reduce octane rating slightly,  but none of the Honda engines run high enough compression to give concern.  I feel it could be beneficial on these fours just for helping to preserve the inside of the exhaust system too as they are not plated in any way.

I've quite an old Honda four stroke generator that I dose with a very small amount of castor oil, makes that lovely R smell when using it, but wouldn't ordinarily mix that in the bike fuel.

[Arch stanton]

I put a cheeky teaspoon of Castrol R  in my next doors lawn mower when he wasn't looking.
It has done more good than harm.

[K2-K6]

I put a cheeky teaspoon of Castrol R  in my next doors lawn mower when he wasn't looking.
It has done more good than harm.

I like that modus operandi, stealthy implementation of R. Top work  the world's a better place for the smell.

[fogrider]

I have a Norton rotary which is a 4 stroke but the lubrication of the entire engine internals is by pre-mix  oil.  (via a Yamaha auto-lube ).  I can't  remember exactly what the ratio is but 1/300 rings a bell . I will look it up. That means in an engine with pressure fed lubrication will need way less than that. The original was Shell Rotella DD40 which is a straight 40 diesel engine oil and made them smoke  and, in mine, I found a big build up of ash in the exhaust ports.    Classic 2T is now preferred by some but it's damn expensive, no smoke though and if you use a synthetic you get that lovely perfume smell !  I believe Wiz racing used Classic 2T in their race bikes at the classic TT.

In the old days, when I filled up the attendant would ask if I  wanted a shot or two of Redex. One or two shots per gallon . That is quite minimal in proportion.  2 old pence a shot I seem to remember. How could I afford that !

[SumpMagnet]

can't see it doing any harm. The stuff is intended to burn in a combustion chamber, and at small doses, it's not going to foul plugs or cause carbon issues. I run some large scale RC cars that use premix fuel, and wioth good quality synthetic oil, there is virtually no soot build up at ratios of 25:1...and thats in what is basically a 30cc chainsaw motor. Get run pretty hard too

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Before Cats & DPF's I always used some 2T oil in my bikes,petrol & Diesel Cars - not every fill up but every 4 or 5 refills. I put in 1 Litre of 2T oil for a 142 litre fill up.

2T oil has an almost identical profile to Redex Oil but is usually much cheaper. This information came from my friend who used to be the chief engineer at Lubrizol in the UK who do independent vehicle testing for major oil companies. Using synthetic 2T oil is marginally better as its ultra low ash but the price means I use the cheapest 2T oil I can buy.

The 2T oil raises the burn temperature of the combustion products helping to reduce the build up of carbon particularly around the exhuast valves. It has a number of spin off benefits - often raises compression and can reduce engine noise. Be aware that using it too often or adding too much can lead to plug misfires etc reversing the benefits. We used to go to France 2 or 3 times a year so I always treated the tank for these nice long runs - it usually increased the fuel economy by a couple of mpg in the short term.

As an aside back in the 1960's I owned an old Vauxhall Victor F type saloon - the vehicle had been fitted with a Redex button operated device that was basically a small Redex container mounted under the bonnet connected to the engine inlet manifold vacuum connector. The pipe between the two was routed into the dashboard that had a small circular dial with a button that you pressed when the dial showed enough vacuum in the coloured zone. This button was depressed for a few seconds whereupon the exhuast would look as if you had blown the engine with blue smoke cloud following you lasting for 15-20 seconds! Can't remember what name it was marketed under something daft like a Redex Optimiser it had a sort of Red & Green Pie Face that rotated to show vacuum!

You were probably supposed to use it when stationary and reving the engine but it was very James Bond when your rear view mirror was a cloud of smoke behind you.

[fogrider]

A Redex injector, that's brilliant Ted, don't remember them though .

I seem to think old 2 stroke bikes ran 1/30  although many riders ran 1/50 to stop plugs whiskering.

Back to the Norton,  1 pt of oil to 300 miles up to 1pt to 500 miles. Rotaries do from 35 to 45 mpg.

I think that equates to 1.5 % average and does the entire lube system.

A Redex 'shot' is 13cc which calculates as  0.0028 % of a gallon.   (do check my maths !)

[ka-ja]

The old two stroke Ariel Arrow ran at 20 to one, 25 to one was considered a bit lean until the Japanese came along.

[florence]

one worry here is that if you put too much you will weaken the mixture and make it run hotter.

[fogrider]

25 to 1 too lean , I wonder if that reflects material quality, pistons/rings/bores and the quality of the oil available then ?
I had a 125cc  2 stroke for the daily commute to Beverley fire station. (this in 1976). No ratio given, you filled the petrol cap up with 2T oil and added it to the tank.
After a month of the 12 mile round trip, the fuel tank had hardly gone down. I guessed it was doing about 250 miles per gallon. Wierd. One day, I noticed one of the lads pouring petrol into my tank. I asked why :- the station only had can stock, 2 gallon cans. When they went in the van to fill them up, they had to empty dregs out somewhere so exactly 2 gallons was dispensed, if less, they were accused of pinching the difference.
It must have been running on almost neat petrol.
Did'nt bother it at all,
It was a Russian Cossack Minsk !

[ka-ja]

The good old days, garage 2 stroke dispensing pump set at 20 to 1, two shots in tank, cost 12old pence,  with 2 gallons of leaded, 2s -10p, modern money 19p for 140 miles of smoky pleasure, on a bike you could crank over and off the wheels.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

The good old days, garage 2 stroke dispensing pump set at 20 to 1, two shots in tank, cost 12old pence,  with 2 gallons of leaded, 2s -10p, modern money 19p for 140 miles of smoky pleasure, on a bike you could crank over and off the wheels.

I worked as a petrol pump attendant at weekends circa 1963/4 - 4 gallons of Esso Golden was 19 shillings & 8 pence - many customers told me to keep the 4p change!

On a good day I earnt more in tips than wages for checking oil levels, topping up batteries & inflating the tyres. Worst car ever for topping up a battery was I think an Armstrong Siddeley the battery was accessed via the inner wings if I have the make right. Redex was 1 p a shot can't remember the price of the Long Shot but 12p sounds right.

[Lobo]

Hey, thanks gents - a very informative thread.

Given there’s always a bottle of 2T in the cupboard I might as well give 4 Strokes a little treat...