Stuck dowel pins in transmission

[alexdecker]

Hey, it's me, back with another episode of things that are unbearable stuck in my motor. This time, we are talking about dowel pins. Specifically the two outlined in the picture. This is the last thing I need to get out before I can start cleaning this engine, and of course this is giving me problems.

They are soaked in WD40 right now, but I am scared of using pliers on the one, because I will probably nick the bearing part. And the other one holding the transmission fork is not moving at all, in spite of me using a telescope magnet the best I've learned.

[Bryanj]

Selector try wigglihg selector with magnet attached, they usually fall out.
Casing dosnt HAVE to come out to cleam but look for it every time you move case in case it falls out!

[alexdecker]

Selector try wigglihg selector with magnet attached, they usually fall out.
Casing dosnt HAVE to come out to cleam but look for it every time you move case in case it falls out!

Wiggled with the best of them. Damn thing haven't even budged. I guess I could clean the engine still though. And also paint it, as no paint is coming near that assembly. But this is starting to become a matter of pride. Every damn thing has to go out of this engine, if it becomes the end of me!

Which it probably will…

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

One of my dowel pins did not fall out easily on my 400 as I could get new replacements easily I used a pair of pliers to extract one - It seemed to be held in by oil underneath it that acted like a suction glue effect.

I would soak with a  bespoke  releasing fluid like Plus Gas Formula A overnight rather than standard WD40 then try to rotate the one you can grip - mine came out with a magnet after rotating slightly.

[sye]

Heat the casing gently below the pin. As the oil expands it will push the pin out.

[alexdecker]

Yeah, I think its time to get a hold of something a little better than WD40.

The one I can see is sitting in the bearing spot for one of the transmission cog shafts. I am almost sure I would nick it, if I tried to do anything to it. The other one is not accessible at all, as it is deeply recessed into the selector fork.

This actually brings up another question for me. I took out the transmission without taking it apart, and also the primary drive, without taking anything of the shaft. Is there anything wrong in cleaning the internals of the engine even though I don't split it up into single parts? I.e. can I just clean the transmission as the two big pieces it is right now? Or do you guys recommend it and other parts staying oily when going back in to the case? In that case, I would only clean the outside and inside of the actual engine case…

Also, all my bearings seems to be in good order. No nicks, smooth glide and all. How do you guys usually clean them up?

[alexdecker]

Heat the casing gently below the pin. As the oil expands it will push the pin out.

Going to try that right now.

[alexdecker]

Okay, heating worked for the one bearing to the right. Now I just need good (like really good) advice on the one holding the selector fork in place…

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

On my 400 I  was reluctant at first to dismantle my transmission. I took plenty of photographs before I removed the two gearshafts placing them as complete assemblies into clear zip lock bags. I decided I needed to remove some surface rust that was present on some none gear surface parts so dismantled one shaft almost completely. Lots of photos plus some written notes were used together with my workshop manual & the parts manual for rebuild. Cleaning the empty casings  & painting them was much easier with gears etc removed. When I was unsure about some details when putting the engine together I sought help here. I had not dismantled a motorcycle engine in over 50 years I am now much more confident in my rebuild thanks to advice from here. Plus of course the wealth of U Tube videos that I used as tutorials.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Okay, heating worked for the one bearing to the right. Now I just need good (like really good) advice on the one holding the selector fork in place…

My first  thought would be to remove the whole selector shaft if that's possible for easier access?

[mickwinf]

I had trouble with the pins in the selector fork, ended up tapping with a light hammer until it fell out.

[alexdecker]

On my 400 I  was reluctant at first to dismantle my transmission. I took plenty of photographs before I removed the two gearshafts placing them as complete assemblies into clear zip lock bags. I decided I needed to remove some surface rust that was present on some none gear surface parts so dismantled one shaft almost completely. Lots of photos plus some written notes were used together with my workshop manual & the parts manual for rebuild. Cleaning the empty casings  & painting them was much easier with gears etc removed. When I was unsure about some details when putting the engine together I sought help here. I had not dismantled a motorcycle engine in over 50 years I am now much more confident in my rebuild thanks to advice from here. Plus of course the wealth of U Tube videos that I used as tutorials.

Ah, but I definitely want to remove the gears from the engine case. I just don't want to take the gears apart separately, and wondered what the best way of going about cleaning them then was, if I even should clean them. But being that oily and then taken out of the case, its hard not to have any dust or debris get stuck to them…

The selector fork only goes out when the dowel pin comes out - hence the headache

[alexdecker]

I had trouble with the pins in the selector fork, ended up tapping with a light hammer until it fell out.

Dare I ask where you tapped with that hammer? Not sure what steel is hardened and what can't take any light taps in that whole area…

[Oddjob]

Alex just last week I had the exact same problem. They had been in there for well over 40 years and were rusty as well.

One came out pretty easy with a magnet, the others refused to budge even a little but I got them both out in the end within 10 minutes.

First drop some lube down there, not oil, WD or plus gas, I used some stuff called Deep Creep which is pretty good. Wait a few minutes for it to sink in. Now turn the case upside down so you've got gravity lending a hand, start to flick the selector back and too, you want them to hit against the casing so the shock is transmitted down the fork, after 30 seconds of this, check the pins and see if they have moved, one had and was sucked out by the magnet, one hadn't so back to flicking it again, couple of minutes later that fell out.

[alexdecker]

Alex just last week I had the exact same problem. They had been in there for well over 40 years and were rusty as well.

One came out pretty easy with a magnet, the others refused to budge even a little but I got them both out in the end within 10 minutes.

First drop some lube down there, not oil, WD or plus gas, I used some stuff called Deep Creep which is pretty good. Wait a few minutes for it to sink in. Now turn the case upside down so you've got gravity lending a hand, start to flick the selector back and too, you want them to hit against the casing so the shock is transmitted down the fork, after 30 seconds of this, check the pins and see if they have moved, one had and was sucked out by the magnet, one hadn't so back to flicking it again, couple of minutes later that fell out.

This was brilliant, thank you so much. Went ahead and did exactly this. Had to apply a little bit of heat as well, but knocked it around for a good 5 min. and all of a sudden it came out enough for me to remove the fork and push the pin out from the back instead

NOW this case is going to a professional to get that god forsaken seized screw from the other thread out of the casing