Oil coolers

[Scottish Badger]

Don't know why you think you need an oil cooler in Scotland, the sun never comes out 

Ooh, cheeky! 

[Scottish Badger]

It's contingency planning  for if Ms Sturgeon gets her way.
He might need to flit to England.

Hmm...  She's all bluster, she knows it'll never happen. All she does is make noises to keep her followers on-side, so she stays in power without actually delivering anything of substance! I think my title deeds are safe enough for the time being, haha.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

FWIW if we had a referendum like Br***t  to decide if Scotland should be kicked out of the UK it might be a surprise result - I'm sick to death of her bleating and would vote accordingly. 

[Johnny4428]

We are all sick of it Ted! She can shove her independence right up where the sun don’t shine.🤣

[K2-K6]

Yes to that type of arrangement, but in agreement with you as to how effective it may be in cooling, I was referring to method of fixing as interesting point. The fit for F2 was this plus larger fins on head and barrels as complete package when they ran into trouble with lubrication on that model and kind of stop gap until the twin cam arrived in market.

Wondering the need for cooling as running oil too cold produces just as many problems as too hot. If you've no definite figures of your running example it may be worthwhile assessment to define this.

Running oil too cold, and especially at high rpm can bring unintended side effects. The pump is protected from hydraulic locking (virtually all engine have this) by a pressure bleed off valve that blows excess to sump effectively startng to starve key points in the lubrication system of supply, that's ordinarily the crank and big end bearing sites.
The flow is optimised for stated viscosity (varying with temp) at 90 degree C to give designed flow as originally tested and researched. You'd need to target this temp range in specifying cooling capacity.

I'm going to build a 460 engine for my bike, I have a spare 400 engine as a donor for the project and I now have most of the parts needed for the build, but I've read a lot of older posts claiming oil temp gets marginal with the larger bore size hence the need for additional cooling. I was looking to use an in-line oilstat to regulate the temp, being aware of the pitfalls of overcooling. (I'm an aircraft engineer by trade, spent decades working with both piston and gas turbine engines).

Interesting background in this field. You must have seen some good installation of this type on other systems. Is there anything fundamentally different to this available (sandwich plate type) as this, well definitely a seperate thermostat always looks quite cumbersome on such a small engine.
Always unsure of historic views on additional oil cooling, only from the point of view that the users don't often seem aware of why they've fitted one, more a kind of just because that's what everyone says status.
I like running temperature gauge to see what is really happening in very high duty use as it may not even get into that realm anyway.

Interested to see your solution as I've been looking through combined sandwich plates with built in thermostat, but don't look like you could fit an original type filter housing but just a cartridge type to it.

That 400 always seems like an ideal notional 500 motor when modified and closer to that era grand prix motor than the cb500 having shorter stroke. Certainly an interesting project.

[Scottish Badger]

We are all sick of it Ted! She can shove her independence right up where the sun don’t shine.🤣

Hoorah to that!

[Scottish Badger]

K2-K6

My theory is this - assuming older info I've read from tuners in magazine articles is correct in stating there was no need to up the oil pressure in any way, but temps became marginal with the original Yoshi big bore kits.
Whilst a bypass sandwich plate with integral thermostat would be preferrable, no such item exists for this engine. I don't want to over-cool things (just as bad if not worse in some cases than too high a temp or a low pressure!), so an external 'stat is the only alternative. I've found a 'stat to go with, which I think will sit to the nearside of the filter head without appearing too cumbersome. It starts to open at 72c which may sound a little low but it's going to be in airflow so the oil temp will probably need to go a bit higher before any real flow takes place through the cooler. The oil is also being returned into a hot crankcase and pumped up a hot cylinder barrel to a hot head, so I doubt it'll be over-cooled in all honesty.
I've ordered up an offcut of aluminium bar 4" diameter which I intend to chuck up in the lathe and make my own sandwich plate offtake, so I can put the oil ports exactly where I want to suit the thermostat install.
None of this is going to happen overnight, it's a slow-time project, but as and when I do anything I'll take pictures. I do, however, need that longer CB650 Nighthawk filter bolt.....

This is the 'stat I'm looking at using, the body is 88x49x32, the fittings are AN10xM20 but I can play with different fittings to get the positioning / hose angles as neat as possible.

[taysidedragon]

We are all sick of it Ted! She can shove her independence right up where the sun don’t shine.🤣

Agreed!🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[K2-K6]

Have you seen the plates like this one that incorporate thermostat neatly integrated

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From this link https://www.advocultmotorsport.co.uk/mocal-thermostatic-oil-sandwich-plate-high-flow/ that may, with a bespoke spigot, take a honda filter housing and std bolt arrangement.

Or use  a later type cartridge filter used on Honda bikes early 80s.

[Scottish Badger]

I did look at that type, but the only ones I found were either too bulky or the sealing ring diameter was way too small to seal against the crankcase. 
I didn't see that particular one however, and I could certainly chuck it up in the lathe and machine a larger diameter o-ring groove, but it says suitable for up to 80mm cartridge filter sealing face and the Honda seal is 89x4.4 (from memory!) so i doubt there would be sufficient metal there either.....

[allankelly1]

Hi all

Long time no see as been working 100% on this project the last few months so not been about much




As Ted mentioned I fitted a cooler on my CB400F and here’s some pics of the final installation

Hope they are of  help

Best wishes Al












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[Scottish Badger]

That's very neat Al, thanks for sharing. 
Don't suppose you can remember where you got the sandwich plate from, or what size the unions on it are?
I note it has a bypass drilling, so only a perentage of the oil flow goes via the cooler - have you done any oil temp measurements?
Cheers,
Brian.

[allankelly1]

Hi Brian

Thanks for the kind comment

Got the cooler and sandwich plate from here

https://www.d-mengineering.co.uk/en/

Don’t bother with the braided hose kit that is offered as in the end it was easier to buy all the separate fittings and a hose kit from eBay and make up the required  hoses to suit my final cooler and sandwich plate set up / position as both my sandwich connections as you can see are at six o’oclick and then I have used two 180 degree bends to return the hoses back up vertically to the cooler

The kit I used was 3/8 (6AN)



Also did not bother with mounting brackets as thought they were a tad expensive so made a cooler mount at work which I think was much better

As for temps I fitted this as a pre cursor to the 460 engine I am current building as I was told by DM that oil cooling on the standard engine is on the limit so a oil cooler for a big bore engine was a must have

Best wishes always Al


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[Scottish Badger]

Was it this plate Al?
https://d-mengineering.co.uk/abante2/index.php?rt=product/product&path=85&product_id=2790

[allankelly1]

Yes that’s the one

This was the cooler I bought too





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