Oil coolers

[Scottish Badger]

Evening all.
Looking to fit an oil cooler when I install my rebuilt engine. Thinking slightly out of the box (and put off by prices for a simple offtake plate!) a CB650 Nighthawk has a very similar looking oil filter housing, and also a sandwich plate feeding an oil cooler. The seal for the sandwich plate is the same part number as the 400/4, so it has to be the same diameter.....  What I can't find listed anywhere is an adapter union to attach the sandwich plate to the engine, which leaves me thinking it's simply a longer oil filter bolt, hopefully the same thread as the 400's one but just longer?
Can anyone out there confirm this, or suggest any other alternatives?
Thanks.

[K2-K6]

Look at 750 F2 (not the newer one that's not sohc) as that used a additional plate behind the oil filter housing as standard, just with additional fins in that example. 

Many of this type arrangement use a spigot/bolt that holds the plate to motor and moves the threads out to utilise std oil bolt for filter housing.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

A member here fitted one to his 400 - allankelly1 - might be worth a PM.

[Scottish Badger]

K2-K6, you mean one of these? 
I really don't have much faith in that small amount of extra finning doing much, to be honest. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ka-ja]

My sandwich plate between filter and the engine is held in place with a longer version of the holding bolt instead of an adapter spigot

[K2-K6]

Yes to that type of arrangement, but in agreement with you as to how effective it may be in cooling, I was referring to method of fixing as interesting point. The fit for F2 was this plus larger fins on head and barrels as complete package when they ran into trouble with lubrication on that model and kind of stop gap until the twin cam arrived in market.

Wondering the need for cooling as running oil too cold produces just as many problems as too hot. If you've no definite figures of your running example it may be worthwhile assessment to define this.

Running oil too cold, and especially at high rpm can bring unintended side effects. The pump is protected from hydraulic locking (virtually all engine have this) by a pressure bleed off valve that blows excess to sump effectively startng to starve key points in the lubrication system of supply, that's ordinarily the crank and big end bearing sites.
The flow is optimised for stated viscosity (varying with temp) at 90 degree C to give designed flow as originally tested and researched. You'd need to target this temp range in specifying cooling capacity. 

[Scottish Badger]

Yes to that type of arrangement, but in agreement with you as to how effective it may be in cooling, I was referring to method of fixing as interesting point. The fit for F2 was this plus larger fins on head and barrels as complete package when they ran into trouble with lubrication on that model and kind of stop gap until the twin cam arrived in market.

Wondering the need for cooling as running oil too cold produces just as many problems as too hot. If you've no definite figures of your running example it may be worthwhile assessment to define this.

Running oil too cold, and especially at high rpm can bring unintended side effects. The pump is protected from hydraulic locking (virtually all engine have this) by a pressure bleed off valve that blows excess to sump effectively startng to starve key points in the lubrication system of supply, that's ordinarily the crank and big end bearing sites.
The flow is optimised for stated viscosity (varying with temp) at 90 degree C to give designed flow as originally tested and researched. You'd need to target this temp range in specifying cooling capacity.

I'm going to build a 460 engine for my bike, I have a spare 400 engine as a donor for the project and I now have most of the parts needed for the build, but I've read a lot of older posts claiming oil temp gets marginal with the larger bore size hence the need for additional cooling. I was looking to use an in-line oilstat to regulate the temp, being aware of the pitfalls of overcooling. (I'm an aircraft engineer by trade, spent decades working with both piston and gas turbine engines).

[Scottish Badger]

My sandwich plate between filter and the engine is held in place with a longer version of the holding bolt instead of an adapter spigot

That's exactly how I think the 650 Nighthawk cooler plate is attached also. I've found a complete cooler/pipes/plate package for sale on ebay but the filter retaining bolt isn't there and I can't find it for sale on its own unfortunately.

[K2-K6]

F2 (for illustration purpose) filter etc for sale here and showing long bolt https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333956713306 that maybe a route to buying replacement if dimensions allow.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Clipped from that item.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

This old post shows Allan's oil cooler.

[Scottish Badger]

Thanks Ted, don't suppose there's any pics showing the sandwich plate and pipework?

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Thanks Ted, don't suppose there's any pics showing the sandwich plate and pipework?

If you PM allankelly1 you will find him very helpful.

[Oddjob]

Don't know why you think you need an oil cooler in Scotland, the sun never comes out 

[taysidedragon]

Don't know why you think you need an oil cooler in Scotland, the sun never comes out 

Cheeky bugger! The sun comes out a lot. It's just blue, not yellow! 🥶

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

It's contingency planning  for if Ms Sturgeon gets her way.
He might need to flit to England.