Doubts about EVs

[Laverdaroo]

True story………





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[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

 

[Multiman]

Just get Bairstow to shift them, wouldn't take him long.

[royhall]

Apparently they are about to dig up 70 billion tons of Norway for phosphorus rock for electric car battery production. Well I hope all the diggers and mining equipment are battery powered. What utter bullshit, the world's gone mad.

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[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Apparently they are about to dig up 70 billion tons of Norway for phosphorus rock for electric car battery production. Well I hope all the diggers and mining equipment are battery powered. What utter bullshit, the world's gone mad.

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Read somewhere that there is some more essential raw materials in Cornwall for manufacuring batteries - a return to mining eh the holiday home owners will love that if it's opencast !

[Orcade-Ian]

Hope I can get a ticket to watch that steam roller record attempt Roo - I don't mind being held up in traffic while that takes place! Pity it's only 100 of the idiots.

Thatcham have just issued an analysis of recent insurance claims and guess what?  EV's are 25.5% more costly to repair and take 14% longer - IF they can be repaired at all as many have battery damage which usually writes them off.

Glad I'm old!

Ian

[JamesH]

Apparently they are about to dig up 70 billion tons of Norway for phosphorus rock for electric car battery production. Well I hope all the diggers and mining equipment are battery powered. What utter bullshit, the world's gone mad.

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Lol. We only burnt circa 4.2 billion tons of oil in 2021. At least the contents of the batteries can be recycled.

[Multiman]

"Read somewhere that there is some more essential raw materials in Cornwall for manufacuring batteries - a return to mining eh the holiday home owners will love that if it's opencast !"

They are planning to extract via "Lithium Brine" so no open cast mining and second home owners can rest assured.

"The environmental impacts depend on the extraction methods used. Cornish Lithium are planning to directly extract the lithium from the fluids in a processing unit that will have a footprint the size of a supermarket or medium sized industrial unit. Direct extraction of lithium from geothermal fluids using cutting-edge technology is the most environmentally responsible method available, and Cornish Lithium will strive to ensure that the impacts of the project are kept to a minimum"
 

[Multiman]

"Apparently they are about to dig up 70 billion tons of Norway for phosphorus rock for electric car battery production. Well I hope all the diggers and mining equipment are battery powered. What utter bullshit, the world's gone mad."

This is actually a good news story as previous to this discovery there was a critical global phosphorus shortage which is used in solar panels and electronics as well as batteries.
The 70 billion tons quoted will last for 100 years so its not happening overnight.
I'm sure Norway will do it in as green a fashion as possible as they have loads of money and are a very green nation generally.

For a bit of perspective globally we dig up 3 billion tons of metal ores every year, so in a century thats 300 billion.

[royhall]

I should make it clear that I am not a climate change skeptic, far from it. I strongly believe that electric vehicles are not the way forward and the rush to adopt them is ruling out all other more sensible options. I have already stated what they are in an earlier post, all could be done right now but non are being adopted. I firmly believe that the electric thing is to simply sell you something to boost the economy.

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[Multiman]

Just to be clear my position is that there are a number of competing technologies and we don’t know which one will win yet.
I don’t know any more than the next person that EVs are THE solution but they are a solution that works for now.
There are huge challenges to the whole question of energy supply going forward, infrastructure, generation etc but anything that makes it possible for us to burn less stuff and makes the UK as a country less dependent on other countries gets my vote.

[Multiman]

If the very best IC engines are only 53% efficient after over 100 year of development that’s not great.
They have to be heated up before starting or they will seize and only run for a few hundred miles before having to be rebuilt.
If fuelled by hydrogen or other green hydrocarbons they will still pollute as they produce nitrous oxides during combustion.
This can be reduced but not eliminated by catalysts but they use up precious metals that are in short supply.
Every solution has issues, the jury is out.

[Oddjob]

They've started testing Hydrogen instead of natural gas in some towns, from what I've read the only produce water when burnt.

[Multiman]

Unfortunately if you burn hydrogen in the presence of nitrogen (our atmosphere is 78% nitrogen) it produces nitrous oxides.
It is much cleaner than burning hydrocarbons though.
If you react hydrogen in a fuel cell there is just water as a byproduct and you generate electricity.

[Athame57]

'They have to be heated up before starting or they will seize and only run for a few hundred miles before having to be rebuilt.'

I don't get it. What do we do to heat our engine before we turn that key or stand on that kick start?