500 alternator stator screws - five out of six are solid.

[Trigger]

I don't know were you get "JIS profile that ended in 2008". I still buy JIS screws from Honda and other suppliers up to a delivery this morning from Japan.   

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Essentially from reading up on ISO 8764 it appears the old dot markings on JIS screw heads has also been withdrawn as a requirement. It  is also covered in an excellent article on Wiki that the Japanese have revised their industrial standards to move closer to Europe & USA specs. This  appears to explain why many tools are marked as JIS PH3 for example.

As well as my previously quoted source this one is an interesting read.

.https://smallworkshop.co.uk/2022/10/01/japanese-screws-and-fasteners/#the-elusive-jis-screwdriver

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Here is a so called JIS set but the items are marked as JIS PH2 etc for Japanese Motorcycles etc as they have a different profile to standard PH2 tips -  these are what I have but a different brand am I wrong in thinking they are JIS compliant?

Any links to original spec JIS screwdrivers welcome mine were cheap & are showing typical wear due to lack of hardening.


 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184042375191?hash=item2ad9c7c817:g:7EEAAOSwNlld0-E0&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwFDOaTf2rGXDY24ubtjQS7Z5U0RArznR6dQLtiXDAyDaAKjKxiODGs4TndqXpfnmXfiCYY8WQ46%2Bf0ju%2BDRR60ZtWYXx2Udz8yqMunio833nDF96HgP8b0TKEo4q9D4a401XpulAYOS6fZgTyMLU3bUto8F%2FVqmRZ9zOqykASPK8rdfoiCamNX9GnhuN81AvK%2BzAIeU74VrK9Afkq%2BpG1suNLVkLb51pSWRBvKThJGCKnxGArQ2b3D7nVUSeLXo43A%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8LKlq2pYg

[taysidedragon]

That last link from Ted (smallworkshop) was very interesting. I understand the changes that have been made now.
The Sealey JIS tool bits that I bought a few years ago definitely fit the old screws on my 400f better than anything else though so that's what I  use.

Right at the end of the article it mentions Robertson Square drive. I'd never met these before 2019 when in New Zealand our campervan used them everywhere.  I had to buy a set of drivers when our waterpump for the sink went bellyup.  Widely used in USA I believe .

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I had to buy a Robertson Square Drive  tool as all the side panel retaining screws  on our Canadian made Hot Tub use them.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I don't know were you get "JIS profile that ended in 2008". I still buy JIS screws from Honda and other suppliers up to a delivery this morning from Japan. 

Graham/e, I'm not talking about the old profile JIS screws not  being still available -  I'm sure they are - I'm on about the tools that fit them. 

Newer tools  have been designed to work with JIS screws and with Phillips they are marked as say JIS PH3 - this change reflects the profile of new JIS tools on the market with the  newer dual profiles so they work for both.(Clearly not all brands it seems)

I'm sure it has been mentioned on here that some new JIS bolts are sold without the dot mark on them this reflects the later JIS change in marking requirements.

You clearly inferred that my JIS PH3 screwdriver was not JIS standard - this is where I beg to differ - yes you might be able to obtain some JIS only screw drivers that are made in Japan to the old standard but certainly here in the UK all the tool retailers appear to be designating their JIS tools with the new JIS PH3 type specification reflecting dual use.

[Trigger]

I don't know were you get "JIS profile that ended in 2008". I still buy JIS screws from Honda and other suppliers up to a delivery this morning from Japan. 

Graham/e, I'm not talking about the old profile JIS screws not  being still available -  I'm sure they are - I'm on about the tools that fit them. 

Newer tools  have been designed to work with JIS screws and with Phillips they are marked as say JIS PH3 - this change reflects the profile of new JIS tools on the market with the  newer dual profiles so they work for both.(Clearly not all brands it seems)

I'm sure it has been mentioned on here that some new JIS bolts are sold without the dot mark on them this reflects the later JIS change in marking requirements.

You clearly inferred that my JIS PH3 screwdriver was not JIS standard - this is where I beg to differ - yes you might be able to obtain some JIS only screw drivers that are made in Japan to the old standard but certainly here in the UK all the tool retailers appear to be designating their JIS tools with the new JIS PH3 type specification reflecting dual use.

Old as you call them with a dot to identify as original JIS are very available. To test a JIS screw or a PH screw, just force blu tack on the head and remove to see the profile.

Here is a link to a picture that they are still available and i still buy them in bulk  >>>  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166216111052?hash=item26b34093cc:g:huoAAOSwPGBd72zP&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwKjgbz9CoZUv4ghC8o4rtbcdn5Tyb%2FThQzovUGp6U9Xu21stnrrAa19WFgUcW%2FUThxZt2IVu1%2FFoKqmknFm6BPZQPBbPtAdRWeKt1QftmZ3gKl%2BFFiGuPNScgPlElHo5IJwz5vOAJ%2Bfp3b1BxoZPJshqUhAOM7u%2FIZGlYG1O0eK9GO75H9ZW%2FoOfnxImBQJVkcMrYdg%2Fe3AgglOEVtLwiTXagfp1FveuIHUrLB%2Bs4GbzS4DPxRkF8qcmSfKiO2HArg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4iTqcOpYg

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Grahame the adding of the dot to the screw heads is no longer a requirement under the current JIS rules that cover manufacturing in a broad range of products. I suspect established manufacturers will keep the dot stamps until the machinery is replaced, newer firms have the option.
You are again missing the point I was discussing - the tool to use not screw head with or without a dot.🤔🤔🤔

[Trigger]

I think you are missing the point JIS is JIS and PH is Phillips.
I sent a message to the manufacture were i get my JIS screws and bolts from and asked if they could supply me JIS PH3 head screws. They have never even heard of a mix JIS PH head and said, JIS is JIS and PH is Phillips as, they are a different shape 

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Yet again Graham/e you are talking about ordering JIS screws from your supplier.

I am talking about the Tools to fit those screws.

Like it or not it appears that an agreement has been reached involving Europe, the US & Japan to enable a single tool that can be marketed that will fit both types of profile - these are marked as for example a JIS PH3 screwdriver.

I have  never suggested that a standard Phillips Screwdriver will fit into a JIS screw head they cam out I think is the expression.

I do maintain however that a tool marked as JIS PH3 will fit a JIS screw with no cam out and can be used on a Phillips head. The difficulty might be that the manufacturing process is very precise so not all brands work as they should. That was the conclusion in one of my earlier references.

On the subject of screws for a moment - below are two advertised JIS screw photos downloaded  from e bay. The first shows the dot markings the second one does not - it so happens that the second advert is close to home you should recognise it.
.
JIS screw by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr

.JIS undoted by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr

[Trigger]

They will cam out as, i use PH on stripping engines and grind the tip so they fit better. I am not worried about screw head damage when removing as i always replace with new JIS. Putting a engine together i always us JIS bits as a PH bit chews the BZP plating and will rust very easy 

Cam out test >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SSLsJNgn4M&t=99s

[Oddjob]

That test is flawed though, they are using a JIS and a PH in a PH screw, a better test would have been to use a JIS screw as well.

[Trigger]

Depends on what you look as flawed. If a PH driver cams in a PH head it will cam even easier in a JIS head. JIS were out well before Phillips so, Phillips is just a copy or a take on JIS. Before that brit and usa bikes were still using slotted 

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I suspect that the new range of JIS PH type of tip would have passed as they are visually different to a Phillips.

[Oddjob]

You're missing the point. The problem is a JIS screw not a PH screw. PH was designed to cam out so that they didn't strip screws when being inserted by a machine. So linking that test proved nothing, if it had featured a JIS screw and used a PH driver and a JIS driver that would have addressed the point of the original question.

Try sourcing Vessel screwdriver sets Ted, I bought a set from Amazon a couple of years ago https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vessel-Megadora-2x100-2x150-Screwdriver/dp/B071SGNCSM/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1LAE2J1A245FD&keywords=vessel+JIS&qid=1689342831&s=diy&sprefix=vessel+jis%2Cdiy%2C72&sr=1-9

Not marked as PH as well.