My New Project arrives after a 44 year wait!

[Johnny4428]

33607-377-670 Part No listed for these models Dave.

[Oddjob]

The stays whilst looking like the same part as fitted to the 500 are not for the 500, I think the arm is longer but the main difference is that the part has an earth connector fitted to it on the underside, the 500 doesn't have that. The 500 is the same as fitted to the early 750s IIRC.

If the arms were the same length I'd say they would be an improvement on the 750/500 brackets due to the earth wire fitting, tidier.

The brackets BTW are listed on the 400F.

[Laverda Dave]

I got back out into the garage today after a week's break (although time indoors was spent wisely ordering various parts) and before the next deluge of rain. I am contemplating halting the bike rebuild and building an Ark 

I should be collecting the frame next week from Microblast, it was actually ready on the 23rd December, only three days after I dropped it off but then I dropped off the exhaust flanges for a silver creokote finish so will collect everything next week. That's one item completed and the first bit of visable progress.

Today I checked over the gears for chipping etc, all looked good until I found really bad wear on the low gear of the countershaft, it actually wobbles! Is this normal? I noticed the gear has an internal bush and this is not available as a separate part, as is the gear itself! I attach a photo but obviously you cannot see the wear.

Following that discovery I inspected the main shaft, the gears are fine but the needle roller bearing housing has been cracked, I can only assume the PO did not align the crankcase dowel with the bearing housing and used a hammer instead to mate the cases, how else could that damage have been caused, i have never seen damage like that before unless an engine has siezed or blown up! The end of the main shaft also looks very dubious, it appears the case hardening has worn from the shaft (assuming Honda case harden the gear shafts?) although the damage does not go all the way round the end of the shaft just a third of the way round it which is strange. I don’t know if this is a result of the shaft running off square due to the bearing housing damage although all the neede rollers in the bearing cage itself are fine and turn freely with no binding?

So, what to do now, do I get a new s/h main shaft or is this wear considered normal, the photo makes it look worse than it is although I can feel a very slight lip with my finger nail on the end of the shaft were the damage is. The same applies to the 'wobbly' gear on the countershaft. I know Steve at 400Bits has some gearbox parts but I will wait until the experts on here can offer some advice first.

The bike didn't look to bad when I first got it but the more I delve into it the worse it gets especially in the engine department, I'm glad I only paid £500 for it  .

[Laverdaroo]

I think I might be tempted to replace the lot if it’s possible Dave, the damage sounds too far gone for my ‘peace of mindometer’ if it was me. It’s apart so you might as well. You’d be kicking yerself it it goes pop after all that work. Expensive and frustrating but it sounds like a no brainer. No doubt somebody with more marbles might be along soon to offer better advice than firing the parts canon but as you know, it doesn’t take much to knacker things when they’re not doing what they should through wear!


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[Nurse Julie]

They need replacing Dave.

[Laverdaroo]

See, told yer


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[Bryanj]

Shaft is a paperweight, bearing same so gear probably.
You will probably find it easier to get a complete box or bottom end unless Julie has parts in her inventory.
Looks like insufficient oil changes and missalignment, you should build these motors in the top half to get the pegs and half clips aligned properly

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Dave,
If it's a 400 I have a full set of gears & shafts out of a spare crankcase - they are not expensive if you need them. PM me for details if they are of interest to you. Ted

PS I also have the crankcase & crankshaft. I bought the part engine/box during lock down from a member. It was  iirc stripped for  the primary drive shaft & associated bits.

[Laverda Dave]

Time for an update with happenings in the shed on the rat bike.

The carbs have now finally come up clean after four trips each into the ultrasonic cleaner at 30 minutes a time. I was able to scrape the varnish residue off after the third attempt with a final clean to follow. I have used a full bottle of Allendale carb cleaner in the process.
The float hinges were so corroded into the retaining posts despite following three cleans and the application of careful heating to avoid melting the plastic floats I had no choice but to drive them out with a very small drift and pliars. I bought some 2mm brass rod to make four new hinge pins and used the lathe to rub it down to the correct disameter. I placed all the brassware into clock cleaning fluid for a couple of hours followed by the ultrasonic bath (thank you for the tip Mr Millyard ). Two of the pilot jets ap[pear to be moth eaten and I will replace these and one of the needles from my spares stash.

On to chrome plating, I finally found a plater in the London area! They are called Ashford Chrome Plating and are located in Crayford, SE London and they are very professional from the tour of the workshop they gave me when I went to have a look last week. They have their own repair facility where I saw a bumper that was full of holes being patched, panel beaten and polished prior to plating. I cleaned up my parts ready for plating. The inside of the points cover was thick with black paint so I used the multi coloured polishing wheels reccomended by Ken to strip it off, they are fantastic bits of kit, well worth buying . I also used these on the kickstart knuckle as the knuckle is a really rough chrome plated casting and looks terrible, I dont know why Honda fitted such a rough finished part in an area where it could be seen. After a couple of hours with various files and the polishing wheels it was ready to take to the chrome plater. I managed to seperate the rear light following a great tip from Ash of how to do it.
When I took the parts to be plated they didn't like the look of the brazed repairs to the rear mudguard, I spent hours on this rubbing it down but it wasn't to their standard so they are going to have another go at it . They said they will send me photographic updates of the parts as they travel through the workshop. Whilst I was there I noticed various parts of another 400/4 going through the plating process and they looked really good so hopefully my parts will look the same.

I have nearly finished polishing the carb tops and bowls ready to rebuild them. The powder coater has called and my frame is ready to collect. Hopefully all the vapour blasting will be ready to collect next week and I will be able to mount the carbs on the vapour blasted rail along with the new S/S carb spindle Max has made for me. Still awaiting for the return of the fork stanchions from Philpotts, its been a long wait so far.

Engine wise, I have bought a good set of gear shafts from Ted after mine were found to be beyond trying to save due to damage on the shafts. The vapour blasted barrels and head are now with NJ & Graham for a rebore and checking for bent valves and worn guides.

Spares, I am unable to avoid it any longer, I will have to place an order to DSS, more wallet bashing

[Oddjob]

Try using the white wheels on the brassware Dave, it's about the same grit grade as pumice stone, around 2000 grit IIRC, they'll come up like new without damaging them at all. The carb tops try using something like light blue or purple and it will get rid of the scratching on them, if the scratches don't go easily try red or brown but not dark blue or dark green unless it's really really bad. After the scratches go try going up the grades ending with light green, by that time they'll look almost polished. Dark green or drak blue will even remove weld splatters and will work quite well to smooth out the kickstart knuckle, the more you use them the more you'll wonder how you ever did without them.

[magpie114]

Interesting positive comments about Ashford Chrome plating. Its always reassuring when a company is willing to show you around their facilities. I had some parts recently chrome plated by Ashford and I was very pleased with both their turnaround and results.

[taysidedragon]

The paint on the inside of the points cover is an insulating coat to prevent electrical shorts from the points and connections.  Maybe to stop drumming or vibration noise as well. Remember to coat it with something similar
after plating.

[Laverda Dave]

Thanks for the tip Gareth. The paint on the inside of my points cover wasn't the normal Honda thick grey paint but was a very thick black as though someone had poured paint into it. I thought I'd better clear it out as I would be charged by the plater for additional prep work. I'll spray the inside of it when I get it back.

Ken, those polishing wheels are amazing and you wonder how can plastic remove metal but it does! Only downside I found is if you catch them on a sharp edge it will strip them in a millisecond so you have to be careful. But like all things, practice makes perfect 👍

[Oddjob]

Not sure if you know this Dave but the discs must be fitted in a certain direction, on the boss of the wheels one side has a small hole, this must be fitted so that the hole faces the Dremel or as you say they'll strip the fronds off in seconds, if you look at the fronds they slope in one direction, the direction must match the direction they spin in.

I've never stripped the fronds off a single one so you must be doing something wrong and it must be that. I have found that if working toward an edge, like the edge of a casing for example work down towards it not up, so have the edge of the casing below the disc not above or when it feels the edge it will just grab it and fling itself upwards and away.

Don't use any pressure either, just light pressure only, after a while you get used to how much pressure to use and you'll find they'll last ages that way. Best to use 2 on a mandrel or 1 if you're doing a groove (like a piston ring groove).

[Rozabikes Tim]

What the link to Ken's post on these?