Power consumption, E-ignition vs Points. also - spare advance cam?

[Mikep328]

Has anyone performed a test to see the difference in power consumption between running the OEM points system vs a DSS E-ignition (which is on my 400)?  I'm curious about that, suspecting that points would require less power.   

In the spirit of tinkering, on that subject I am looking for an OEM (points) ignition advance cam - JUST the cam that fits on the advance unit.  Anybody in the UK have a spare they would sell me?  DSS has the entire advance unit but I don't want to spend £58+ for that when I only need the cam.  I have all the rest of the OEM system, but I guess when a previous owner installed the e-ignition, he/she tossed the cam or forgot to put it in the little bag with the breaker plate that stayed with the bike.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

You might need to check the brand of advancer as the part will be probably be different - there are two iirc one is tec the other is ND I think.

[Mikep328]

OK, didn't realize there were two different advance units.  Thanks.

[Multiman]

Give Steve a shout, he may be able to help.
https://www.400fourbits.co.uk/#electrical

[Mikep328]

 Thanks re Steve!   

 No joy!

I suspect I'd have to buy the new unit from DSS if I want to tinker with points.  But I don't have £58 worth of tinkering in mind for this...

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I've sent a PM I might be able to help.

Assuming that Honda paired  the same brand of spark advancer with the ignition plate I have a Tec one that is from my 400.
If you check the diameter of the shaft the one I have is as follows.

Length/Height inc: flanged part 29.65 mm approx, Inside diameter at flanged section (inner face) 15.2 mm, main inside diameter of shaft 15.0-14.95 mm approx.
The ND one is substantially larger or smaller i/d I forget what way round it is
.
All measurements approx only taken with my calipers.

[Trigger]

For a CB400, it has 333 number on it

[Mikep328]

Thanks guys, I'll check it later this afternoon if I get to the garage.  If not, tomorrow when I get back from having a new set of K82's mounted.

[Mikep328]

Update:  I ended up going back to the USA before continuing with this "project."  While there I came across a complete points plate/advance unit in a garage sale for 10 USD!  I checked the condensers  with a real capacitor tester (not a multimeter) and they show good as far as capacitance and voltage.  Points are original ND and look essentially unused.

Now I'm back in the UK eyeing these parts wondering whether I REALLY want to install the OEM system or just leave the perfectly functioning DSS EI in place.  Logic/common sense would dictate leaving the EI; but I have this NON-common sense urge to have the points in there...

I haven't awakened the 400 yet from it's winter slumber - been too cold/wet for me but hope to do that sometime this week.  It's probably not often that someone has a perfectly running machine and intentionally changes something that may make it less so and I can't think of any operational advantage that the points would provide!   Yes, they will provide a spark with less voltage than EI but I haven't seen any case with my 400 where low voltage is an issue.     So more thinking...

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

The only advantage I can see but would not use is that often a CB issue can be fixed at the roadside.

An electronic ignition system (I have one fitted) is a bit like a light bulb it either works or it's blown, not much in the middle assuming the connections are all good to the unit.

My experience on cars is that they are many times more reliable than CB points as well as staying 'in tune' so as to speak even though cars have a different spark supply arrangements.

The Boyer system is probably the best of both worlds in some ways as it retains the CB points iirc.

[K2-K6]

The "Hondaman" units,  along with some others, use the points to trigger with electronic load switching of coils to give hybrid system.

Boyer uses all electronic, triggering, advance/retard (deletes std mechanism) with internal curve determination, multi spark at low rpm, control of dwell independent of crank speed etc .... essentially a full change to most automated into that unit of most system on offer.

[K2-K6]

Update:  I ended up going back to the USA before continuing with this "project."  While there I came across a complete points plate/advance unit in a garage sale for 10 USD!  I checked the condensers  with a real capacitor tester (not a multimeter) and they show good as far as capacitance and voltage.  Points are original ND and look essentially unused.

Now I'm back in the UK eyeing these parts wondering whether I REALLY want to install the OEM system or just leave the perfectly functioning DSS EI in place.  Logic/common sense would dictate leaving the EI; but I have this NON-common sense urge to have the points in there...

I haven't awakened the 400 yet from it's winter slumber - been too cold/wet for me but hope to do that sometime this week.  It's probably not often that someone has a perfectly running machine and intentionally changes something that may make it less so and I can't think of any operational advantage that the points would provide!   Yes, they will provide a spark with less voltage than EI but I haven't seen any case with my 400 where low voltage is an issue.     So more thinking...

I'd be inclined to keep the fitted DS system to run it, bag the original and store to see if there's need later on.

I doesn't look to me that you could tell the difference between the two from running perspective, conditional on the points system working as it should when new. But ultimately it will wear more during use.

It is hard (seems common across many points system in different manufacturers) to get condensers that would fully support competent running now. Many complaints across different forum etc.
If youve bought that good set and want them as backup longer term,  running the DS system appears sensible. More personal decision than any real practical choice, with either being fine in running the engine.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I agree with K2-K6 on his comments, when I eventually get my 500 running I will use the CB points system as I know it ran on them just fine.
Probably after a few hundred miles I will fit my electronic system that I sourced from Bryan.

Part of me says a hybrid system is neither fish nor flesh so like most things it's down to personal choice.
I suspect I have often made up my mind then seek out answers to confirm my already held biased views.

[Moorey]

 The argument for the Hondaman hybrid system is there is virtually no arcing at the points making them last 10s of thousands of
 miles with no maintenance only the odd lube of the felt now and then. If there is a fault on the electronics it can be reverted back
 to the standard system at the side of the road in a couple of minutes. I still run the original system but would go for the
 Hondaman if going electronic.