Oil filter bolt / relief valve

[Matt_Harrington]

Ken kindly sent new innards for my bolt that is obviously a pattern part.

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As you will see the old 'cap' is deformed and is about 0.4mm smaller in diameter than an original (Original parts on the right).
The spring is also a little weaker (longer but thinner gauge)
When fitting the replacement cap to the old bolt, it didn't drop in all the way and I discovered there were burrs on the inside of the bore.
So, I can only assume the cap wasn't working well and was  either jamming in the bore or being worn down by the burrs. This may explain how some of the ring debris got puumped around the oilways.
A reamer has cleaned up the inside and the cap is a decent fit with no snagging. So, it is defintely worth checking the operation of these replacement parts.....

[Oddjob]

Just shows you what crap people like DS sell, not even a flush cut on the bottom of the cup like the original. I wonder if the poundage of the replacement spring is roughly the same? It's thinner but longer so the compression it's under may make the poundage it opens at roughly the same? Not exactly something you want to take a chance with.

I'd also suggest checking the relief valve in the oil pump, if it has one, I had 3 pumps apart and 2 were stuck solid. When cleaned up etc the plunger would fall inside under it's own weight, if it sticks even slightly, clean it until it doesn't

[Matt_Harrington]

Thanks, Ken - I have had the oil pump apart and was slightly surprised that there was no damage to it so just a clean and new seals (all rotors within spec).

A manual test of the spring leads me to think the original is slightly stronger - not exactly a scientific test!!

[TrickyMicky]

Just shows you what crap people like DS sell, not even a flush cut on the bottom of the cup like the original. I wonder if the poundage of the replacement spring is roughly the same? It's thinner but longer so the compression it's under may make the poundage it opens at roughly the same? Not exactly something you want to take a chance with.

I'd also suggest checking the relief valve in the oil pump, if it has one, I had 3 pumps apart and 2 were stuck solid. When cleaned up etc the plunger would fall inside under it's own weight, if it sticks even slightly, clean it until it doesn't

  I notice that over time there seems to be a lot of hate directed towards DSS Spares.  The only connection I have with this company is that I have used them for over 21 years. In that time, I have had to return two faulty items. One was a GENUINE Honda set of front exhaust pipes, which when fitted, two of them actually touched each other. I'm fortunate to live close enough to be able to visit the store. I was taken into the unbelievably massive warehouse and given a free hand in choosing another set. The other item was a fully loaded pattern  ignition backplate, which I purchased to try and save money. Exchanged for genuine item plus cash adjustment.  For my sins, I owned for a short time this year an XBR500, and I purchased a set of rear brake shoes from an online supplier of repute.  When they arrived I saw that they were Ferodo, which gave me confidence even if they were made in Italy!  They were rubbish, so I bought a set of OE shoes from DSS and they just fell into place.  With something as important as parts for engine lubrication, is it not a touch risky buying unknown pattern parts, when the genuine item is readily available from DSS?  Stay safe everyone.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I've no issue with DS parts in general although some can be on the pricey side.
I have found them helpful on the phone.

[Oddjob]

It's the fact that DS seems to deceive people.. They put genuine equipment in the description but what they don't say is that it's NOT genuine Honda. So you buy thinking it's genuine only to find that it's not.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

TBH Ken I have only noticed three categories of parts on the DS site.

Aftermarket, Pattern, then Genuine Part.
When I have ordered Genuine Parts they have arrived in sealed Honda plastic type envelopes or boxed in Honda Logo boxes.

I assume you have experienced something different Ken as I have not come across the term genuine equipment that I can recall.

[Oddjob]

OEM replacement seems to be how they describe them now. He’s changed his terminology, most likely due to the number of complaints he got.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

If it was an OEM part that would infer it's an Original Equipment Manufacturer supplying a part as per the original specification   supplied to Honda.

OEM replacement sounds like a pattern part.

When I used to run a Carlton the pads from Vauxhall (AC Delco) used to warp the front vented discs, the pads were around £35 a set. On my third set of discs under warranty I was told by the dealer that the cure was to buy genuine new vehicle specification  pads not the service replacement pads. I was well fed up by then so on my last set of new discs I paid the extra for OEM pads that were a different part number. They were just over £100 for the set but I never had any more issues with warping the discs.

[Oddjob]

You'd think that wouldn't you Ted. But just because the same people who made it back in the day are now making the new ones doesn't mean they are made to the same spec. They may use different processes now to produce the same part, or different metals or even different components, usually meaning cheaper components. At the time they'd have supplied their best parts to a giant like Honda, they needed to make sure they kept the contract, now it doesn't matter so much, lets make it cheaper, make more profit and who cares if it's not as good, it was over specced in the first place, seems to be the attitude.

Stuff like seat foam could no longer be able to be produced due to environmental concerns for instance, so even if people like Yamiya use the same manufacturer to make the 750K0 seat the foam may feel and act differently.

[Athame57]

  I notice that over time there seems to be a lot of hate directed towards DSS Spares.

I've had loads of things from DSS and yes, looking around they can turn up a bit pricey, but nothing compared to using CMSL after shipping costs. At first I didn't know better and I could have saved money before. But the only really serious gripe I had was with their fuel tank, and needing to buy a US version fuel tap from the start was a bad start. But having spent hundreds of pounds getting the tank and panels professionally painted I discovered it .....didn't fit! I phoned them up and there was lots of huffing and puffing of disbelief at their end, but later they phoned me up and agreed their was a problem after they checked one of the new batch I was first to get an example of on one their own CB400Fs. It was discovered the central groove was a bit too narrow to clear the two mounting rubbers! The remedy is to shave them back a few millimetres to fit, having spent so much on said tank I accepted the solution and I'm happy. But only after I discovered that the tank lock wouldn't fit on the mounting stud, I had to gingerly file it to fit myself. So if you order a tank of them, I'd phone them first. This was about four years ago.

[Matt_Harrington]

Just to be clear, the aftermarket part that was the issue could have come from anywhere as it was on the bike when I bought here (engine knackered!) and it may or may not have come from DS.
Either way it is now fixed and operates just like a NOS one I have.

[Laverda Dave]

I agree with TrickyMicky on this, David Silver is a very genuine guy, I have known him since his days in Wembley, NW London. I went to buy some 400/4 bits from him the week after he moved to Suffolk. I rang him before I left home and he warned me his new place was in a mess with boxes of parts unpacked as there was so much stock but he told me to come down anyway. When I arrived I had a huge list of parts I wanted his face dropped but he walked me around the warehouse and we looked through various stillage bins. After a couple of hours I had a trolley of parts including complete wheels (genuine DID with bearings), genuine NOS seat, fully painted side panels and tank in yellow, Speedo, cables, airbox with rubbers, kickstart lever, you name it he had it. When it came to the bill, £300. Let me say though this was 1990. When I see Dave at shows I remind him of that day😁. Without the likes of Dave (and CMSNL) we would be stuffed. Yes he and CMSNL are now expensive but that's down to supply and demand. How many of us would have spent our savings in the late 80’s buying up a load of obsolete stock hoping it's value would increase and winning if it did but going down the plughole if it didn't? You also have to remember Dave now employs a few staff as his operation has grown, I'm sure at times he wishes he was still trading from his Wembley garage instead of having to employ staff with all the implications that brings with holiday pay, sick pay, maternity pay, heating, computers, welfare facilities etc. He has to run a business and he does have to make a profit otherwise wouldn't do it and why should he, he's not running a charity for us. For the record I have no connection with David Silver other than he has kept my bikes on the road and he's honest, how many eBay traders selling pattern parts can you say that about.
As for OEM parts, OEM means original equipment manufacturer, whilst these companies may have made the parts in the past it doesn't mean they make them now, they only supply them. When I was working I remember we had mechanical drive equipment made by a very reputable company however they sub let the contract to another company in another country because they were cheaper and what did that company do, they sub let the contract again to a company in China because they were cheaper still even through when the parts arrived to us they were in the original companies branding. Result, the parts failed as they were made of cheese! It took a long time to find out the real facts. Just because something states OEM supplier doesn't always mean that supplier actually makes it.

[Oddjob]

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not knocking DS, I, like almost everyone here buys from him. What I was knocking was the quality of some of his parts, not this part in particular as we don't know where it came from. However, we have all read stories on this very forum of parts from DS failing after a short while, whilst Honda parts aren't immune from this they do seem to last a great deal longer.

I do think he should try and source from better manufacturers and make sure the parts he sells are good enough for the job. That's my point.

[Sesman]

Perhaps he does, Ken. If anybody knows of better quality parts suppliers, let DS know. The world is what we make it.