CB360 Swing Arm Collar Problem

[cbxman]

Hi Folks,

I noticed that there was some weave whilst out riding my CB360, so I checked the play in the rear fork and found some movement.  On inspection the bushes were slightly worn, but the collar was quite pitted.

In an attempt to fix this, I purchased a Tourmax (labeled on the pack as SNB-102) Upgrade Kit from Motorcycle Products, their part number 034064.

The kit is nicely made and uses IKO needle bearings and end bearings where the weather seals would be, but it had no weather seals.  The OEM seals won't fit over the end races that they supply.  I considered modifying the OEM seals so they would fit, but their thickness would add to the already correct dimensions of the kit and would cause binding with the Frame mounts...even if you could get it in the space!

I have requested information from Motorcycle Products, but have yet to receive a sensible response.  There appears to no way of contacting Tourmax directly...

In the photo I sent to Motorcycle Products to explain the situation, you can see the issue.  If by any chance the end bearings are actually waterproof, which I doubt, then the problem goes away.

I have put a "Desperately Seeking" message up for the collar, but not holding out much hope as it is a shared part with other models.

Any ideas out there?

Cheers,

Jerry

[Oddjob]

In Tunisia atm and typing on a phone so will need to keep this short. The Tourmax doesn’t need seals due to the way they used a different solution to the problem than Honda

[Bryanj]

As Ken said but also grease it very frequently and there will be no problem Honda spcified every 3000 mile, i say every time you go out if you dont ride a lot or every week if you do.
The problem of collar wearing more than bushes is common to all the Hondas

[cbxman]

Wow!.  Thank you for the quick responses. OK, so the end bearings which are very smooth operating are in themselves resistant to water ingress?  Are they some sort of PTFE sandwich? The IKO needle bearings and the end thrust bearings look like they are made from Stainless Steel

The CB360 does not have a grease nipple so that would require a complete dismantling of the rear end every time greasing is required.  It's is little wonder that they were common failure point.

Maybe I can fit a grease nipple in the middle somehow.  The two halves of the swing arm pressings wrap around and welded to the tube that makes up the pivot, so I would have to drill on the front side.  I have checked and there is not enough space between the tube and the back of the motor to get a grease gun on.  I would have to drill through the pressing and tube near where they are welded together.  That would place it underneath and more accessible.

Will the end bearings allow grease through I wonder.

I was going to use CVJ moly grease as I have a tub of that.  It is supposed to be resistant to water, so that should help.

Any further comments are welcomed.

Cheers,

Jerry

[Bryanj]

Fit a grease nipple like on the 400 OR modify a 500 through bolt to fit that has grease nipples on the end, dont think much would need to be done.
No the end bearings are not waterproof which is why you need to regrease regularly.
Q does the 450 twin have grease nipples on the bolt?

[royhall]

Fit a grease nipple like on the 400 OR modify a 500 through bolt to fit that has grease nipples on the end, dont think much would need to be done.
No the end bearings are not waterproof which is why you need to regrease regularly.
Q does the 450 twin have grease nipples on the bolt?

Yes the 450 has a grease nipple on the end of the bolt.


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[Bryanj]

In that case try and find a 450 bolt but you will need some holes in the tourmax collar where the bearings go to let grease into the bearings, it takes a bit to fill the void spaces but will come out at the end bearings

[Oddjob]

450 bolt will not work before you try to find one, I’ll explain better when I’m back in the uk on Sunday

[cbxman]

450 bolt will not work before you try to find one, I’ll explain better when I’m back in the uk on Sunday

Thanks Ken.  On hold 'till you get back.

Thinking about it....I was wondering whether fitting a grease nipple is likely to be needed as my bikes don't go out in the rain unless I get caught out, so I don't expect to be putting those bearings under any threat.  When the salt goes down, the bikes go to bed until the spring.... I'm a bit of wimp !!.  I did all my crap weather riding back in the '70s

Cheers,

Jerry

[royhall]

450 bolt will not work before you try to find one, I’ll explain better when I’m back in the uk on Sunday

Thanks Ken.  On hold 'till you get back.

Thinking about it....I was wondering whether fitting a grease nipple is likely to be needed as my bikes don't go out in the rain unless I get caught out, so I don't expect to be putting those bearings under any threat.  When the salt goes down, the bikes go to bed until the spring.... I'm a bit of wimp !!.  I did all my crap weather riding back in the '70s

Cheers,

Jerry

Don't think there's too many on here that would disagree with the salt out bikes in sentiment.

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[Johnny4428]

I agree Jerry, we don’t spend thousands of pounds on these machines to splatter them in salt and watch them rust and corrode in front of our eyes.

[Oddjob]

Before I fly home tomorrow can you measure the oe collar and the Tourmax version and post the lengths please

[cbxman]

Before I fly home tomorrow can you measure the oe collar and the Tourmax version and post the lengths please

Hello Ken,

As requested.

The overall length of both assemblies is similar.  The Tourmax being about 1mm shorter. I guess the frame will flex to cover that when the through-bolt is tightened.  The rebated section passes through the end bearing to contact the frame.

Cheers,

Jerry

[cbxman]

Hi Folks,

Just to finish this thread.....

The OE swing arm collar is not available in the UK, so I would bite the bullet and install the Tourmax Upgrade kit.

Given that this kit has no obvious weather seals, (the OE seals are discarded) I decided to drill the S/A in the centre nearest the lower pressing weld line.  I tapped the hole to M6-1 and screwed in a 90º grease nipple.  With two aluminium washers, I could tighten the nipple to point where it was easy to connect my grease gun (slight to the r/h side of the tyre from underneath)

Whilst the S/A was still on the bench, I pumped CVJ Moly grease through the nipple until it squished out of the two needle bearings.  I then added the two end bearings and installed the S/S in the frame torqued down to the FSM value.  I then pumped more grease in until it came though the end bearings. I figured that CVJ grease is very sticky and water resistant and very strong under compression and ideal for this job.

The finished job is excellent.  The S/A has no slop and swings up/down with no effort at all.

If I ever get caught in the rain, then a pump of grease will expel any moisture, if any at all. CVJ grease is never likely wear out...especially when you consider its intended use.

Things to note.  If you assemble the needle bearings on the shaft, you can feel a small bit of slop which was a little worrying, but whilst I was researching needle bearings, I discovered that they will always be slightly sloppy because they must be installed in the correct size tube which forces them down to the operational size.  This is so.  No measurable side play at all at the wheel end of the S/A.

This Upgrade Kit is suitable for the CB450K, CB350F and CB250G5/6, CB500T as well the CJ variants (according to their website).  I ordered from motorcycleproducts.co.uk

[royhall]

Nice job. Well done.

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