Non Starter

[adrian58]

Typical, the first dry and reasonably warm day to show off my CB750 K2 at the local cafe' meet and it won't start. In the end I flattened the battery and cooked the solenoid. However when I went back to the bike later in the day, I disconnected the starter and with 2 or 3 kicks she started  and ran fine. My question is this. As it has a Boyer fitted is it the same as my Harley was that unless the battery is fully charged it powers the starter and not the ignition circuit.  Didn't think of that yesterday but my Harley caught me out a few times with that.(one of the reasons it's now sold).

[Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP)]

Hi.
Don't really know but if its any help to you today was nice here too.Thought leave the wine alone go for a ride,started no problem but seemed for ever to get her off choke not normal spluttered like fury and after a kilometre then all of a sudden roared into life.Choke fully off and no problems accelerated right to the red line and ticked over as usual.I think Ill put it down to be plus 35 years old and with the mixture of modern fuels so be it.I am sure others will comment on this but it was still bloody good riding her.Just thought normally I always start her on the kickstart cos I like it today was on the button got me thinking!!!!! Weekend I will go back to the kickstart will let you know.
Cheers
Bitsa

[Lobo]

Same problem for me: my K2 just ain't interested using the electric start if left a long while. (& it is, regularly). It would crank & crank with no hint of life until the battery is flattened if you tried...

...But, turn it over (on the kickstart) a few times to oil the bores etc, then ignition on, full choke, full throttle & she fires up on 1st or second kick. Thence a balancing act with throttle / carb to keep the revs reasonable.... & perhaps 2 or 3 mins before I'm happy to load the engine / take to the road. After this can use the elect start to your hearts content.... takes a nano-second.

And I'm 100% certain, if used regularly (daily basis etc) none of the above palaver would be necessary.

PS - unsure if necessary, but due the modern fuels comments I run the bowls dry @ before putting the bike to bed < any long spell.

[Bryanj]

All the aftermarket electronics seem to need an A1+ battery voltage to work properly

[adrian58]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Seems that it is just an issue with bolt on electronic ignition systems. Won't make that mistake again and a small price to pay for never having to set points again. Sadly I don't have power at my garage to use an Optimate. Just wish I'd realized it before cooking the solenoid . Still, 'Flea-Bay' to the rescue £9.95 delivered. (hope it works)

[K2-K6]

It seems to me that even with some newer bikes it's the same, in that if left without running for more than a week then it is certainly reluctant to fire and may flatten the battery. Most don't have a kickstart now either so it's often a run-and-bump it first time, then after a run out all ok again.

[Bryanj]

A lot of "Modern"(since 85) stuff needs the carbs drained if stood for a week as the "New" style petrol goes off quick

[Lobo]

..... sorry to darken this SOHC webside with Italian / modern stuff (a weak moment, but bloody love it), but since Brian & K2 -Tec Gurus - on about fuel can you comment how best to look after a rarely used injection bike / nil fuel tap / nil kick start / shaft drive. Have gotta say, after almost a year ownership no probs, always starts first time, but anything proactive I should be doing guys.... fuel additives etc?

And further to this which brands of petrol best to use / avoids?
Cheers,
Simon

[SteveD CB500K0]

An Optimate and fuel stabiliser!

[K2-K6]

I haven't yet used stabilser but as Steve says it does look like that route may certainly become more normal to prevent some problems that seem to be more frequent from evidence of posters on here.

I haven't looked at the guzzi system specifically, but most fuel injection holds an advantage over carbs when talking about this problem. The fuel is usually run from the tank by a pump in a circuit with a pressure relief valve that allows excess fuel to be passed back into the tank during use, this has the effect of moving localised fuel away from the injectors and effectively mixing the tank contents which will go towards helping reduce starting problems.
Along with the high pressure atomisation that a injector nozzle conditions the fuel with, it should show the lowest level of problems in being left.
Along with Steve's notes, just a simple shake of the bike so that the tank is mixed when you are near it should also help.....seems odd but it helps the fuel mix from stratifying into layers that can assist the deterioration process.

[Lobo]

Thanks gents,

Particularly for the specifics K2; always keen to learn..

Will make stabiliser a feature of the 3 bikes. Still thinking about the Optimate, have heard mixed reviews...  Have treated the '750 to a LIPO battery, so far very impressed, ...but pricey.

http://www.carrotcycles.co.uk/shorai-powersport-lifepo4-batteries/cat_217.html

I sincerely apologise for thread drift here, but to wrap things up on 'non-starting' bikes; is it ok to bump start a shaft drive? (which in essence is no diff to bump starting a car?)

Cheers again...

[Bryanj]

Had to do it all the time with a "shop" V7(?) whilst waiting for starter spares(2 months)

[Lobo]

Cheers Bryan...that'll do me..

[Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP)]

Did the usual this time with the kick no problem just like the norm makes me think.I have a sit upon grass cutter sits there all winter starts no problem and I do not drain the carb.One thing I have noticed is that it will not start with full choke from cold modern fuels again I do not know just live with it.Like someone said I think that if used daily we would not notice these problems.
Don't know for sure.
Cheers
Bitsa

[K2-K6]

I'd go along with Bryan on the shaft question....would seem to generate no more stress than when you shut the thottle in a low gear and the wheel spins the engine via the gearbox.

Forgot to put a comparison on that fuel injection reasoning......the old four cylinder bikes with carbs would appear to have the worst case of fuel problems if you leave the floatbowls partly full as they each have a vent tube to air.....I understand the major part of the problem is promoted by oxidation......so four little chambers of fuel all vented nicely to air would appear to offer the faster route to getting the fuel in a poor condition.

My understanding of "old" fuel is that the fresh petrol smell you get when you buy it has a lot to do with the components called the aromatics, and these help to make the fuel ignite easily.....but they also disappear quite readily if left vented to air, leaving the heavier components of the fuel which promote a stable burning but are less inclined to fire when sparked. Also now with ethanol added to many pump fuels, this has an unstable and deteriorating effect in the same circumstances, so we are now seeing a compounded effect when the fuel is left in unfavourable conditions.

Apparently some supplies have no ethanol, but you'd have to research the supply chain in your area to find out. It certainly would appear to reduce some of the problems if you found such a supply.