Forks advice

[pptom]

Hello all, picked up the new bike on Saturday and am really pleased with it, runs lovelly - went out for a cheeky 20 mile 'shakedown' ride yesterday (no MOT yet). However, one thing that really surprised me is the handling - it feels really wallowy and a bit vague.
I suspect that at 36 years old the old springs have sagged somewhat, but to be honest i didn't really know what to expect having never ridden one before.
I've just ordered some new Hagon shocks - they've asked me my weight etc and I'll see how i get on with them, with the option to change springs as and when, if required, but i think my real issue is with the front end. Wheel bearings show no movement and i suspect the stem bearing may well already be tapered - think i can see this at the bottom of the stem - also there is no notchiness or free play. Tyre pressures good, new rear tyre and a matched 'ribbed' front - they are continental super twins?
I had a tiny weep from one of the fork seals, which may have been caused by transporting it, so new seals on order and i'll do an oil change with some modern 10Wt (everything seems pretty much spot on with the rest of the bike so i don't suspect maintenance has been scriped on or done incorrectly). I've read 'hondamans' advice about shimming the springs to take up the sag, but my other options seem to be new progressive springs from Hagon (they don't sell linear springs but reckon their progressives are about 10% firmer than the stocks) or the gold fork emulators (which would need to be coupled with some new linear springs) - both of which get pretty good reviews in the US.
Initial thoughts start with the cheapest option first - change oil and seals and measure springs, then make up shims to bring the spring free length back up to spec - but, since this will affect the springs characteristics, would i just be better off fitting the Hagon progressives?
I know its a heavy bike, but has anyone got some recommendations for sharpening things up a bit, particularly in the relation to the above fork options?

Photo's to follow by the way!

[Green1]

Hello and welcome
My 750 was exactly the same when I first rode it the front springs were on there limit and the fork oil was a foul smelling sludge.
I highly recommend progressive front springs my bike would shake its head violently at speed before I changed them.
Can you move the rear swing arm from side to side?Bronze bushes are a wise investment and finally almost any new rear shocks are better than the old stock ones.

Mick   

[hairygit]

I'll second what Green 1 said, also, the forks should use ATF (automatic transmission fluid), and many of these contain addatives to swell the seals and help prevent weeps and leaks

[pptom]

Thanks chaps, thought about the ATF thing, I've used it plenty in the past, but I like using modern stuff now, plus there is the option of fine tuning using different weights. Pretty sure I've read that 10Wt is about equivalent to ATF.

Thats a couple of convincing votes for the progressives - would you say they give the ride a 'sportier' feel?

[K2-K6]

I don't mind ATF but like you, feel that a fork oil is a better performer if you are looking to tune the response and use things like progressive springs. I've always believed ATF to be rated at 5/10 viscosity.

The idea behind a progressive spring is to give a light rate that is supple at full extention for good comfort and wheel response to small bumps, but then with a stronger support to give more resistance when you hit something bigger and/or break hard to prevent the fork from bottoming out.

If you want a more sporting handling bias, it is resaonably common to jack the rear of this era of bikes to give the forks a steeper angle and quicken the steering a little. Something like 1inch longer rear shock will help take a little of the "stability" out of the staid original setup.

[Green1]

Progressive spring made a huge difference in my case but to be fair the original ones were 10mm shorter than recommended and because of the worn bushes it felt like there was a hinge in the middle.
I did try ATF but I found it a little to hard I currently have SEA10 in them as recommended now it is silky smooth over bumps but dives a little more than I would like under heavy breaking.But she always goes were I point here I just have to remember I'm riding a 41 year old machine. 
I have never had a problem with ATF in my other bikes but there are 30+years between them
 

[pptom]

Know what you mean about riding an 'old' bike, but I also ride a 58' Norton dominator featherbed (domiracer style) - I know its old and a bit fragile, but as soon as i jump on it, i'm pretty sure the spirit of one of those old Isle of Mann riders channels through me!!!

[pptom]

Just had a proper swing on the swingarm, i reckon movement at the end is about 1mm, there is a little (can't feel it, only just about see it), but it definitely feels properly bushed.
Thanks for the advice.
Tom

[Bryanj]

There should be nil play at end of swing arm with new pin and bushes (steel pin wears mor than the plastic bushes!!) BUT with only a bit of play pump grease into both nipples and see what it handles like then, greasing is an every 500 miles or every month thing if you want the bushes/pin to last!!---I know Honda say 1500/annualy but they never wore out in the warrantee period no matter what.

These are also very suceptible to incorrect headrace adjustment and/or pitted races

[pptom]

Thanks, will get some grease in there tonight. Don't think its that bad as i really had to put a fair bit of force into it to see any glimmer of visible movement.
I'll also have a look at the head bearings when i get the forks out later this week. Just got the progressive fork springs ordered, thought it would be better to just drop them in when i'm doing the seals, rather than messing about with shims etc

[Green1]

You wont regret buying progressive springs If there is any wear on the swingarm pivot bolt collar it is only fit for the bin.My swingarm is such a snug fit in the frame now with the bronze bushes I have to tap it with a mallet to get it to fit.
Nearly forgot remember to change the lower rear shock bushes as they go as hard as hell overtime. 

[s7paul]

I fitted the Hagon springs to my 500, along with the grade of oil they recommended, and it's noticeably better than before.  I've also got taper roller bearings in the headstock.

[pptom]

The plot thickens!
New OEM seals arrived today from Silvers, i was told the Hagon order would too, but no joy - anyway, stripped the forks and changed the seals in readiness for the springs - total oil quantity was around 300ml from both legs and it was 'fairly' clean ATF that came out. The springs however are already progressive - I have no idea if they are the right springs though until I can compare them to the new ones that I'll be fitting, total free length of the old ones 465mm - obviously longer than stock. They might be going on e-bay soon - or, if they look and measure the same as the Hagons I'll offer them up on here.
Checked the head race too and its tapered, now readjusted.
Can't wait to get out on it now! hopefully be ready for a spin tomorrow evening.

[busa]

did you re pack the bearing with grease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   marine grease is good

[pptom]

Little bit of an update:
New suspension went in front and rear (end of july) - improvement, but still didn't feel right, especially the front end which was following every little blemish in the road, it felt dangerous - from that point I knew I had to change the tyres.
I installed the Bronze swingarm bushes last week (dead easy really) and a new set of tyres (Avon Roadriders) Just been out for a run and I can say the bikes handling is back to how I expect a bike to handle. The swingarm bushes may have helped a little, but I would say 95% of the improvement is with the tyres. I've opted for a 3.25 front and 4.0 rear. Only done about 20 miles and still running the shine off of them, but I'm happy.
The moral of the story: don't buy Continental supertwin tyres
Just got to sort the dodgy carbs now...
Nearly there, but I can't see me doing much more riding until well into next year - I've declared winter!