Will this battery power my cb500 with eletric start?

[lukeyb]

I had a look for more info on here but i could not see anything. Do you think this will power my cb550 using electric start?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YT4B-BS-LUCAS-MOTORCYCLE-MOTORBIKE-MOPED-BATTERY-YT4BBS-/151095896628?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item232e046a34


Thanks,

Luke

[Lobo]

Luke,

This is a very small battery, your CB550 specifies a 14Ah... and this is only 2.3Ah. I see it is typically fitted to 50cc machines.

More specifically you ask about powering the electric start. Not a hope..... Your electric start will draw anything from 120-280Amps; and I see this battery can only supply 40 CCA (cold cranking amps)

I personally would not go lower than a 10Ah battery, and would want to see a minimum CCA value of 200Amps to avoid disappointment.

I'd suggest you don't waste your money on the YT4BBS - never mind the electric start you'd likely flatten it just on lights / normal loads with any amount of idling. When all's said & done its designed for the wee loads of a 30mph moped!

Lobo

[lukeyb]

Thanks for the info Lobo. Electrics are defiantly not my strong point. Do you know of a small battery that will fit a cb550? The one i have i huge!

[matthewmosse]

unless you have a non standard battery holder just buy the right one which will come up easy on ebay search. this will also give you a guide of the right speck if you decide to search out a more expensive gel battery that can be mounted any way up and will be smaller for the same output and capacity.

[Lobo]

Hi again Luke,

I don't know the year of your bike, but guess, if standard, it'd take a 14Ah battery 135 long x 80 wide x 160mm high, but as MatthewM suggests an ebay search using your particular Honda will confirm.

Except you specify a 'small' battery. Is your bike modified? What are the largest dimensions avail to you?

[lukeyb]

The bike has been customised and im trying to get rid of all the stuff in the sub frame triangle. I have done a bit of research and have tried to get my head round V, Ah and cca. I am wanting to find a small and affordable battery that will fit under my seat.

I am planning to make something like this

http://youtu.be/UTDctiyUa9E


out of these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400596041378?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

so....


Will it work? How many batteries do you think i will need?

Thanks,

Luke

[Lobo]

Hi again Luke.
I'm no guru, and happily stand to be corrected on this, but until that time...
Volts, amps, watts (power) & CCA...

Think of your battery as a bucket of water... the amount of water in there is the 'Amp hours'
Volts - poke a small horizontal hole in the bottom of the bucket... how far the water squirts is your voltage..
Amps - would be the diameter of that hole... a thicker stream would be able to supply more power, but obviously the bucket / battery would deplete faster.
CCA... is basically a darn big hole (fist sized) in your bucket, and whilst you'll get a lot of 'power' instantaneously, it won't last for long, and furthermore your battery will drain in a very short time. CCA will be determined by the chemical make up / size of the battery, connectors....

'Power' is basically the force of the stream of water, in other words Volts x Amps. (= watts) eg, a 60W headlamp will use 5A @ 12V. Considering the 'typical' loads you might have on your CB550..

60W Headlamp+
5W Tail lamp+
21W Brake lamp+
34W indicators
------
120Watts

...telling you that with these 'normal' night loads the current drain would be 10Amps on your 12V battery. Now, your alternator will cope whilst running, but you may be in stop-start traffic, and thus the battery has to be able to take the strain.

Bottom line, Honda fit a 14Ah battery for a darn good reason, and whilst you might be able to go down from here a bit, too far & you'll be giving yourself starting problems due basic (unseen) current drain with the spark plug coils & alternator field coils which also consume 2-3 Amps.

... ie if your battery depletes too far you'll have starting problems .... so carry a set of jump leads!

I mess about (a bit) with RC Helicopters; and the battery technology here is amazing. If you were after a compact / powerful battery then a LiPo would be the way to go, a 5000mA (=5Ah) / 11.1V pack with a 20C rating / 40C burst rating. The 20C implies a 20x the quoted amp rating for discharge (ie 100A (plenty)) and the 40C Burst rating implies 40x5A for 'burst' currents... ie 200A for the electric start. (OK). But now Luke you're getting into to very high Tec / expensive batteries, that require careful monitoring / charging.... all the things a 40yr old Honda just doesn't have. (please don't even think about 'trying' one of these battery packs - you may end up with the bike on fire)

Looking at your 3.7V / 5000mA cells on ebay...., well, 3 of them in series (connected end-end) would give a 11.1v battery, rated at 5A. (looking at it I'd have my doubts though!) And then if you made an identical pack, and connected the two in parallel (ie + to +, and the - to - ) you'd now have an 11.1V battery capable of supplying 10Amps. But, what I can't tell is whether they would be compatible / safe with the Honda '70s charging system.... though I'd doubt it very much. What I can tell you is they would not be able to supply a 200A drain to crank the starter in the numbers / costs you'd be considering...

Trying to be polite... you can't buck the system. If auto manufactures could easily fit small batteries they wouldn't be wasting time with bulky / heavy ones. There is a limit, bound by chemistry & dimensions how small you can go, and it seems you might just be trying to push that!

As I wrap up, please, as I say, don't take me as any guru, and please do be careful as batteries are not all the same, and can be very dangerous. (LiPos especially). Treat 'em with respect.

And try these guys... Phil & Pete, very helpful & can offer motorcycle compatible LiPos (ie with charging components built in).... though at your size?  (I honestly wouldn't go 'lower than 10Ah & 200 CCA - tho' Yoshi823 on this forum runs a 5Ah battery on his bike (see thread below). Anyways.. get in touch Phil & Pete - knowledgeable & keen to help.

http://www.carrotcycles.co.uk/index.php?_a=category&cat_id=2

....and check out this thread on the forum,

http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php?topic=5617.msg27816#msg27816

Cheers,
Simon.

[Bryanj]

Having worked on these for too many years to remember you need a lead acid or gel battery to cope with the original charging which fluctuates between flat out, half charge , no charge and so is VERY unsubtle and would destroy either a Nimh or Lipo battery in very quick order and maybe the bike as well----look at Boeings recent problems mate. Even if you fit a modern solid state regulator it would still be too crude.

ALSO unless you want to go kickstart only anything less than 12 Ah will simply not be reliable and if you have an "Electronic" ignition  such as Boyer or similar they tend not to fire if the battery voltage gets low

[Lobo]

Hi again Luke,

Sound advice from Bryan, the Honda charging system is pretty agricultural, and not at all suited to sophisticated / fancy batteries.

Moving on, 'your' ebay batteries 'just looked wrong' I thought, specifically the 5000mA rating for such a physically small cell. I'd have expected 1500mA tops.... Anyways, I then googled UltraFire & came up with a lot of adverse comments... just one such as below.
-------
"I have had years of professional experience in testing batteries, from aerospace to hearing aid batteries. I know how to test batteries & I have the equipment. I tested these based on the standard slow 20 hour discharge rate, not a high rate which makes the batteries look even worse.

This battery company is basically running something like a scam. I bought a total of 6 of these at 2 different times. My tests show that on average, they don't even measure up to a 1/3 of the 3000 mAh level claimed by UltraFire. One went totally dead after using only once.

Furthermore, they only have about the same power level as found in a triple pack of AAA batteries.

Therefore, buying these batteries makes no sense at all. Save yourself time & trouble & stay with lights that use the triple pack of AAA batteries. Keep it simple......"

----------

I assume you're not going ahead (primarily due charging compatability), but one other significant thought is soldering up (eg) 18 cells (to give you a 11.1 / 9A battery) ..... if one of those cells goes duff quickly (which it surely will) you'll drag the whole pack down with a lot of wasted money & effort. Ie keep to professional batteries.