Points or electronic ignition ?

[Bodd]

I have been toying with the idea of changing to electronic ignition, I found the one David Silver sells a bit cheaper than he is charging for it and downloaded the fitting instructions which seem pretty straight forward, I'm not sure about using a rear brake light switch wire for it though, especially when the second to last instruction is "Check the rear brake light switch if it works" with no instruction telling you what to do if it doesn't. Has anyone got electronic ignition fitted and if so is it a lot better ? Are the points on these bikes always having to be adjusted as stated in the adverts for all the various electronic ignition kits I have seen ?

[Lobo]

Hi Bodd,

There are quite a few choices about... and indeed most seem to retain the points... but now purely as 'switches', and in doing so minimising any current flow across them & subsequent wear. Consequently the promise is they'll rarely ever need setting up again / adjusting. Hmmm..the poor things bouncing up & down @ 4000 rpm day in / day out leaves me wondering about that.

Anyways, I bought the DSS offering and stuck it on my '750 K2. An easy enough job, no extra boxes to hide about the bike etc. and no, I wouldn't worry about the brake light feed.... it is simply the NEAREST positive feed... if the light doesn't work it's simply suggesting there may be a problem with that circuit. Remember though, ANY circuit / feed can have issues... 
But, if it makes you happier, simply connect the electronic ignition to any ignition switched live of your choice.

The DSS ignition,  to my mind, was cheaply made. The PCB was almost wafer thin... none of it gave confidence. This, coupled with a rough running bike after a 50 mile run (missing at power) prompted me to take it off. This assertion might be terribly unfair, but the bike had a new loom, points, overhauled carbs... everything...  and before (and after) once again, runs 'just great'.

Anyways, coz I just like to tinker, I've recently installed an optical ignition, British made, called 'Newtronic'. Same sorta price... £117'ish if I remember. It does away with the points, though retains the advance / retard unit. The switching is done via a plate with a cut-out interrupting a beam.
A bit more of a pain to install.... and you'd need to find space for a smallish box. The kit is very complete, and appears to be good quality. One big drawback though is that it too requires a power feed, but not 'continuous' as, like the coils, can be damaged if left powered with the engine off. In other words, you're told to use the coils supply... ie (the black / white) from the kill switch. (this 'warning' is given in accompanying literature supplied with the instructions)

The kill switch was designed to carry (guess) a couple of amps for the coils. It is up to you whether you now want it to carry (guess) another couple of amps... but in keeping with what I've read in other forums, I installed a relay, switched by the kill switch, but providing power from a 'solid' live.
The bike, btw, runs fine.... but better than the OEM points?.... I can't tell. Big drawback of the new system is that roadside repairs with a piece of fag paper are no longer possible... but perhaps this is the dinosaur in me coming out.

One final consideration... electronic systems require a minimum voltage to work. As I see it, an 'original' bike with a duff battery at say, 8v might have a hope of being bump started: an 'electronic' bike won't... you'll be stuck. Happy to hear other thoughts on this one, but I'd guess the electronic system is less tolerant of 'worn' bikes.

All in all, I'm not convinced; we're not tearing abouts race tracks; and the points / Honda system works fine - especially given the few miles I do pa. I think I'll leave the '400 original... as said, I'm just a sucker for tinkering.

Cheers,
Simon


http://www.newtronic.co.uk/new/support/newtro/AK-HO4FittingInstructions.pdf

[Bodd]

Thanks for the info Simon, I have heard of the Newtronic system, a lot of guys in the Aircooled RD club fit them to pre 78 models which had points, luckily mine is a 79 and has electronic ignition as standard, that's one of the reasons I was thinking of going down the electronic path, most of the guys I know who have fit electronic ignition to their RD's highly reccomend it, personally I have no problem with points, I had an MGB for 28 years and it gave me no trouble, I think I only ever changed them twice, apart from a 1978 RD 125 I only had for 3 months the current project is the only other bike I have had that has points and I only rode it once before I stripped it down to it's component parts, so I really have no idea of what it is like to "live" with a bike with points, obviously the electronic ignition vendors are going to do what they can to sell their product so that is why they all harp on about the "many advantages" of swapping over.

[DayvW]

Hi Bodd,

My 400-4 came with the Boyer Bransden unit already fitted (installation instructions attached for info).  The unit is specifically : KIT00089 (BOX00035)   Micro-Digital ignition system for Honda "4" S.O.H.C. motorcycle (210k) if you look at their website.

I have found it excellent.  I have had the engine apart and refitted - and all works well still.  Your battery needs to be in good condition - but that aside I'd rather not rely on points these days (had far too many issues in the past!).  Sorry - dont know price or how it compares to others.

[Bryanj]

Basic rule of thumb is if you do less than 3,000 a year stick with the points and adjust them anually, if you do a lot of miles go electronic.

If with the points you spend a lot of time and effort when you fit new to get both the gap and the static timing spot on, all you will need to adjust till you change them again is the gap

[Dan]

Hi
I bought the DS electronic ignition 3 years ago and when fitted there was an instant improvement in smoothness at tickover. That's not to say you couldn't achieve the same by accurately setting the points, but I wanted to fit and hopefully forget and that is what I achieved.
I run my electronic tacho off the system also.

[hairygit]

Sorry, but give me points and condensors anyday, simplicity itself! Contrary to what the manufacturers and sellers of electronic ignition systems say, points do not need constant adjustment, (if you use genuine parts, can't speak for pattern ones) I have been running the same sets of points for over 70,000 miles, and it still starts first push of the starter, and never misses even when I give it a good thrashing (frequently! ) Just check them for gap occasionally, and keep a little oil on the felt pad the lubricates the points cam, no problems. Plus if it does break down, it could be sorted easily at the roadside with a screwdriver and feeler gauge! (only ever known this happen to a mates 400/4 with pattern points!)

[Johnwebley]

which ever you choose,its worth while checking the plug-caps,
mine had "burnt" out after 40yrs,the resistance far higher than the standard 5,000 ohms

[blind bob]

Just fitted the Hondaman ignition to my 78 550 F2. http://sohc4shop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=32

Not a true electronic system but an amplifier I believe. Retains points and condensers using the points as a switch. In the case of failure it can be returned to the normal set up in a few minutes, though Mark guarantees them for 5 years. Cost about $94 US shipped to the UK. Mark is a really nice guy and keeps you informed of shipping progress all the way. Makes lots of other nice SOHC bits as well (fitted his blade fuse box).

Fitted the box as per instructions, did the 3000 service,new set of OEM points, timed her up and the bike now fires first flick of the starter, idles smoothly which was always a bit hit and miss before.

Lots of info on Hondaman on the USA SOHC site. Works for me.

Bob

[Thep1pe]

I fitted the DSS electronic system to my bike (cb550) It's been on a year now and no problems. Hated adjusting points.


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[Niko]

I have been toying with the idea of changing to electronic ignition, I found the one David Silver sells a bit cheaper than he is charging for it and downloaded the fitting instructions which seem pretty straight forward, I'm not sure about using a rear brake light switch wire for it though, especially when the second to last instruction is "Check the rear brake light switch if it works" with no instruction telling you what to do if it doesn't. Has anyone got electronic ignition fitted and if so is it a lot better ? Are the points on these bikes always having to be adjusted as stated in the adverts for all the various electronic ignition kits I have seen ?

Cheers


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[Niko]

I have been toying with the idea of changing to electronic ignition, I found the one David Silver sells a bit cheaper than he is charging for it and downloaded the fitting instructions which seem pretty straight forward, I'm not sure about using a rear brake light switch wire for it though, especially when the second to last instruction is "Check the rear brake light switch if it works" with no instruction telling you what to do if it doesn't. Has anyone got electronic ignition fitted and if so is it a lot better ? Are the points on these bikes always having to be adjusted as stated in the adverts for all the various electronic ignition kits I have seen ?

Cheers


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This is what I've received.....should there be a rotor...an aluminium bit in the centre or do I use something off the existing points set up.

Cheers


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[mike the bike]

There should be a bit in the centre containing a magnet which will trigger the electronic sensor to produce sparks.  The advance/retard unit is kept.  I would wire a 12V from the black/white on the coils, to run alongside the blue and yellow wires that go to the coil primary windings.  It's a neater solution than connecting to the rear brake switch.

[Seabeowner]

That's the one off ebay I was looking at. You can see the rotor parts in the DS listing:
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/graphics/parts/03020300505P_1_large.jpg
Get on to the seller, probably difficult to get the missing bit separately.

For the record, I've been using a Piranha ignition optical system for 10 years, same as the Newtronic mentioned above. Came off a Guzzi V so took a bit of adapting, but usually carry a points plate that is marked up so I could fit at the roadside.

[Chris400F]

That looks like a different circuit board to the ignition DS sells. Yours looks more like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB-500-550-Four-Accent-Elektronische-Zundung-Electronic-Ignition-System-/162469476847?hash=item25d3ef79ef
Probably basically the same system though. And you still need the missing rotor.