Restorations - where am I going wrong!

[Bodd]

Restorations will always be expensive when vendors charge prices like this, I have recently been in a bit of a war of words with a guy selling a Fizzy for £6,495 because he bought all NOS for it, as I pointed out to him most of our bikes are probably worth more sold as parts but he seems to think it is worth every penny because of the price of parts, he runs a bike restoring business and pays others to do all the work which pushed the price up, I asked him if the price of bikes are expensive because the vendors charge a lot for parts or are the prices of parts expensive because they see how much people like him charge for bikes ? He didn't reply. Incidentally I bought my RD  when I was 17 for £725 and spent £1100 restoring it and was offered £4000 for it at the Stafford show in 2012, but as it was the bike I passed my test on I couldn't bring myself to sell it, so far the CB400F1 stands me at £1500 including the cost of buying it and as it is a café racer I have loads of spare parts to sell 

[kent400]

Lodo's has started a 'thought provoking thread' here and what he paid for for his 400 fours given the good parts it had wasn't really over the top. The price that's paid for a good 400 four has increased over the last 15 years, I think I paid £1600 for mine back then and it was a low mileage example that wanted for nothing. My original 400 four was stolen and the were quite a few around at the time just sub £1000 but they were a bit rough. What might it sell for now, 3k maybe but it's quite definitely not for sale!

So I think that the price achievable for these bikes and others will increase as the years roll by. Assuming of course the interest in them remains quite strong. It will always remain the case that it will cost more to restore a bike than once completed it would sell for.   


 

[matthewmosse]

I'm 32 and most of my bikes and my landrover are older than me, as new tech invades modern vehicles those of us young uns who like to swing the spanners and save a few £ doing some of our own maintenance  are inevitably going to be drawn to these older bikes. Not to mention the saving in insurance for classics. So long term I think these bikes should hold steady on value. As to restorations, for me I prefer the oily rag school of thought, far cheaper. Compared to smoking which I dont or regular pub drinks even if I did do s full resto, it would work outva cheap passtime. Personally I have never let that side of it bother me too much,  I like to ride my bikes, not sell them, appart from the bmws, those I have spent a lot on,mthey failed to match a sohc honda for daily running costs or fun and financialy were money pits ajd that was just for keep em running mentality, not to restore.

[Lobo]

Matthew... I like your thinking, and am jealous that you have access to reliable old Hondas for both fun & function-ability. Don't thrash 'em too hard... they're (very) old girls now!
I've 20 yrs on you.... and the thought of running old UK machines (in my day) would not have pleased my bosses as I regularly reported late for work!

Anyways. ..during my initial hunt for a mint '400F, I noted an ad for a London dealer who described his bike (with clever pics) as, "Immaculately & lovingly restored to a very high standard". At £4000, and with that description, I tubed it across to Elephant & Castle.... the bike was terrible. Yes it had been restored, but using many old parts... grips that were worn, clocks that were faded, a loom with repairs to it.. and much more. I was bloody angry he wasted 3 hrs of my time.
But that's my point... my (incorrect?) view of "lovingly restored" is what Pete & Ash etc would be doing.. whereas many others settle for less, cleverly take dishonest photos, and tell you, "yea, the exhaust is a little dinged there... you WONT get a good one chief; sure the loom is repaired.. but with the seat down you'll never notice; ok, the decals are a bit low.... jeese mate.. you're a fussy sod aren't you?"

And there perhaps is the whole trouble... many of us are restoring these old bikes to a standard that many folk don't want / aren't prepared to pay for - and so have to undersell the bike.

Simon.

[matthewmosse]

Try running an old landrover, original parts all carry dates on them, this adds massively to the sterssing about oriinality factor when restoring or running one if you are lucky enough to like me accidentally end up with a matching numbers one to start with, my original engine would for instance cost eaily 4 figures to restore and it is stillma good runner.. in fact we pulled it out and installed something newer and less stupidly rare..

[hairygit]

Matthew, I take it you're referring to the 2 litre diesel as being the original one. They were never that good when new, and as you say, parts for it are rare and expensive. If I were you, I'd sell it and use the money for your Hondas, after all, it's a Landrover, people put so many different engines in them, I've got a 2.5NA diesel from an LDV Convoy in my 58 series2, I just need a vehicle that starts and works hard when I'm not on my Honda, and my Landrover will never win any show prizes, every panel is dented or scraped, and I like it like that! Sorry to have gone off topic!

[AshimotoK0]

I restored my 400/4 in 1986 and it was an absolute nightmare then. I remember phoning every Honda dealer almost in the UK to get hold of F2 tank decals because it was a secret Honda part no. only provided to dealers and they were instructed to sell you a tank. Fowlers of Bristol sold me the last set they had and they could not get any more.  Then I had to paint the pinstripes myself because nobody sold them. The local bikes for sale at the time all looked very well worn and no internet to find one. The spares price was horrendous and they had already discontinued the seat. I ended up restoring an early model, the one I still own  (£100 from a Brit Bike dealer ... 'Just get that Jap Crap out of here !!) because my immaculate yellow F2 was stolen from work. That F2 yellow bike I bought as 'a write off' because it had a small tear (minute) in the seat and a small dent in the tank and a grip scuffed... the cost of the tank and seat was so high from Honda that the insurance company wrote it off and I bought the 'salvage'.
In 1986 David Silvers original  infamous advert appeared in MCM and at the same time Honda slashed their exhaust prices so that the 400/4 system was now £100 for all of the major parts but still a rip off price for the clamps etc. I remember to this day opening the package from DS with all of the parts in inc. front & rear  fenders/caliper, bar switches, stanchions, tank cap, rims etc. etc. all mega cheap.
The likes of Pete and myself are just obsessed with originality and its an unhealthy (expensive)stance to take. I say just check out that the repro parts are up to scratch and use them on the 400/4 and keep costs down. They are lovely little bikes and need to be enjoyed. Not sure what the DSS repro items are like, I gather they have improved over the past year or so. Or just build a cafe racer and use your imagination. Decently done cafe's seem to command good money when resold plus you can sell off some of the 'standard' bits you don't use to fund the cafe build.

Oh dear must go off to take my K0'itis pill 

Cheers ... Ash

[matthewmosse]

Yep 2.0d. Dent in every panel. But essential on the smallholding as it rinse the hay baler via rear pto. I have 4 sohc Honda bikes to rebuild and probably most of the bits to do them all. Only bits to buy are batteries and tyres. Mind you. The s2 has taken all my Honda Spanner time for the past 5 years or more. Well that and my 4x4 dumper and other oversized toaka toys.