Restorations - where am I going wrong!

[Lobo]

Ok. I'm officially confused. Last night went searching for GVH55S on ebay for sales, and to be honest, was surprised at the number of restored (or 'immaculate' 400Fs) with new OEM parts (well, that's how they're described). The thing is... they were mostly in the £3000 - £4000 band, tho' occasionally tipping the scales a little higher.

A lot? Well no according to my spread sheet. I bought my '400 for £1900, and to be honest, am, at the end of its restoration, well above ANY numbers I see on ebay. I acknowledge I do have an almost mint spare exhaust sys & paid for an engine rebuild, but take those out if the equation... and I'm still substantially out of pocket.

So how can anyone who's restored a bike to the standards suggested sell it for the prices I saw last night? It just doesn't add up.

A couple of thoughts.
(1) folks don't mentally keep track of their outgoings... for sure without the spreadsheet I'd never acknowledge my figures. Not by a long chalk. (tip, don't keep a spreadsheet)
(2) my bikes have been an obsession.. no expense spared, and wherever possible I've striven for quality, bought OEM / NOS. They're not quite , but near enough concours.
(3) perhaps, when the time comes, it'd be financially better to break the bikes. (up there with murdering your kids?)

So.... it seems, I'd have been much better off buying an 'expensive' ebay resto, and have been bored.
But regrets, well nope... it's a hobby rather than a business.

Anyways, comments?

Simon

[UK Pete]

Yes i totally agree with you it does not add up, a hell of a lot of people lose money on their restorations, i can never understand the mentality of people who undertake a restoration spend fortunes getting it as good as they can only to put it straight up for sale when finished and start looking for the next project usually they loose lots of money, they would make very bad business men
I agree that people loose track of what they have spent and try to kid them selfs that they have not spent lots, a classic example is you buy an item  say some HM300 exhausts, stash them away somewhere then a couple of years later they go on a restored bike the mentality is oh i already had them so its not counted on the final costing, on the other hand there are people who have access to cheaper parts, and trade prices on new parts who can save a bit, but i would say on the  whole breaking even or loosing out is the norm on restoring these old bikes if they are done properly i am not talking about cheap aftermarket parts or non original make overs.

Having said all that i am well aware that i could stand to loose out on several of my bikes if i ever finish them and sell up, but like all hobbies you have to spend money, and there are a hell of a lot of hobbies where your money once gone is gone with no return, so if you like restoring bikes for the fun then at least you do get some money back , but not usually much unless your name is frank and you double the price of everything ha ha

[AshimotoK0]

I think it's mainly the 400/4 Simon. Everyone you meet from the 70's even non-bikers remember the bike with fondness and this has prompted lots of restorations, some by rose tinted spec types. Then we have DSS reproducing lots of parts that were previously unobtainable so I think that's brought the price down. I have resigned myself to the fact that my 400/4 with NOS genuine exhaust fenders etc will probably be worth considerably less than my 250K0.

Cheers ...AshD

[Trigger]

Ash, i have looked in to this and yes your CB250KO will be worth more for one reason. It was the first bike someone had when the law said you could ride upto a 250 on a L, plate. That is why a KH250 is worth more than some CB750. And a FS1-E.

[Lobo]

It was suggested to me that I over paid for my donor bike, and indeed I (initially) agreed. A more realistic donor figure of £300 was put forward, and indeed the £1600 difference would explain my 'losses'. But, in hindsight, the reason I bought my particular '400 was that the exhaust, seat, mudguards & chainguard were all either excellent / approaching mint & OEM. Assuming you could get all these you're looking at £1000+£400+£400+£100 = £1900.... which I seriously question a £300 donor would have. (These parts are still on the bike, and look factory fresh). And as a bonus the engine was unmolested, switchgear / instruments all good; the tank & side panels were Ruby Red beautiful (but 'wrong' colour for me) .... honestly think I got a fair deal.
Bottom line I remain confused!

But as Pete mentioned... it is rather academic, the pleasure is not in saving a few quid, but rather the huge kick I got out of making the bike as near as damned possible to the day I took ownership of one from the local dealer back in '78.

Regarding the HON 750F K0 that went for £35k recently... I suspect it was possibly worth it - tho' Pete & Ash will know better. The number plate has surely got to be "worth" £5K...and with my (minimal) restoration experience, but ebay browsing knowledge... could quite see £30K racking up in K0 obsessions.

By the way Ash, you reckon its mainly a 400F issue... agreed to a point, but aware my K2 ain't gonna replenish the bank account either....
Hey ho....

[UK Pete]

Same with F1 and F2 750,s, these swallow up the money when restoring, but will rarely give your money back when you sell,

[hairygit]

I agree with you there Pete, but the F1's are the best looking of all the SOHC 750's in my eyes! So consequently worth every penny to me

[SteveD CB500K0]

If you enjoy building a bike, call it a hobby.
If you play golf, it will cost you £1200 per year to be a member of a decent club. Nowadays they'll probably waive the joining fee but a while back that would have been the SE again as a one-off.

Factor in the kit. Stupid "hi-tech" clubs at £100+ each and they don't even make a difference (!)

Biking is cheap!

[Green1]

Me being a tight wad has paid of both my k1's only owe me around £4000 each
There far from mint there more nice used examples but that's how I like them

Mick

[AshimotoK0]

Quite "By the way Ash, you reckon its mainly a 400F issue... agreed to a point, but aware my K2 ain't gonna replenish the bank account either....Hey ho...."

I reckon with the750  K1, K2 the prices will steadily rise ( I have watched this over the past 5 years). But with the 400/4 it's all about supply and demand and I reckon people loved their 400/4's so much they left them languishing in garages sheds etc, with a view of one day restoring them. Now that repro of the rare parts are being made available, those bikes can be easily restored so there are a lot of them around, and the price will never rise significantly. You see quite a few 400/4's being sold that are literally almost 'out of the crate' but in the past 5 years or so I have never seen a 750 ,500 or CB250 being sold in that state except for a 750K2 in the US once. When you look at the 400/4, Honda had a massive Euro hit with the 400/4 only to replace it with the ugly as sin CB400T, so quite a few people stashed new ones away as a future investment .

Cheers ... AshD

[Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP)]

Nice thoughts but for us want to own one again, others have picked up on this.My mate bought an BSA a10 in the 80s for 30 quid running.Its the likes of me and yourselves that make this scene profitable now but it will die out as the next lot, love boy racer machines and not the raw nude bikes Retro to most of us old gits.I have spent a small fortune on my bike and I don't care as I will never sell it the wife might someday.So I think if you are restoring a classic if money worries you wait until it doesn't.
Like all things time will tell
Cheers
Bitsa

[Trigger]

OK Lads, Here's a question. How many 400/4 were sold in the UK and how many are about now. I keep finding them in peoples sheds, garages, barns and two years ago i found one still in the box.
I have a mate that is a classic car dealer/ restorer and back in the late 80's when it changed from 250cc to 125cc, he went to every bike dealer in this area and bought up all the 250cc. The dealer just could not sell them after the law change.(he did not pay a lot)
He still has all these bikes in boxes in a famous car storage company. What is a KH250 in a box worth? only what someone is willing to pay.

[JamesH]

Nice thoughts but for us want to own one again, others have picked up on this.My mate bought an BSA a10 in the 80s for 30 quid running.Its the likes of me and yourselves that make this scene profitable now but it will die out as the next lot, love boy racer machines and not the raw nude bikes Retro to most of us old gits.I have spent a small fortune on my bike and I don't care as I will never sell it the wife might someday.So I think if you are restoring a classic if money worries you wait until it doesn't.
Like all things time will tell
Cheers
Bitsa

Bitsa, got to disagree with you to a certain extent here (and hopefully this will make you happy)...:-)

I'm 38 and would class myself as a 'youngster' with these bikes. In fact all bar two of my bikes were made before I was born....

My point is I think 'this generation' are starting to come round to this era of bikes, simply because the riding position is useable and enjoyable. I took my TL1000r out last night and it's a COMPLETELY POINTLESS motorcycle to have on Uk roads...fu*king fast but crippling to ride.

Anyway, just my two penneth..I may be wrong and a bit of an oddball...but heh, love is blind...:-)

[Lobo]

Well, it seems pretty much unanimous that (1) its a non-lucrative exercise & (2) you're only in it for the fun. No complaints... I never bought the bikes to sell.

But the point is, I'm AMAZED at how many CB750s, 400Fs are for sale, in supposedly restored conditions. Are there really that many folk, why naively / blindly buy, spend a fortune... and then sell on??? I could accept a couple... but there is just too much choice to accept there are this many 'unfortunate' sellers around.

On ebay recently a ground up restored ... all OEM / NOS CB400F didn't reach its reserve, with best offer @ £2600 or so. Alas, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the restorer sunk £5K+ by the write up?? ... so all futile it sounds.

Finally, I have to admit... I'm new'ish in my return to bikes. A couple of years back I'd have thought, "5K!... can do it myself for less". Fact is, IF you are after an OEM / factory-fresh type machine, you can't...
.... and this might be why the prices aren't being achieved... folk assume they can do better for their money, and alas, only find out much later into their projects.
Simon

[UK Pete]

It is quite trendy to have an old honda in the US especially a cafe racer cb ,there are quite a few younger generation people in the US enjoying the old honda scene, and it seems to be spreading over here, it can be quite a cheap hobby if you avoid the real early models
pete