Newbie 400 build advise

[beemsquar]

Hello all

I am a newbie to the forum and am just after a bit of advice, this is my first ever proper bike, ( I had a DT50 when I was a young) but I have restored a few classic cars in the past and have always worked on my own vehicles, so I have some mechanical knowledge.

I'm just about to pick up my first honda CB400 super sport 1976 f1 as a restoration project or possible brat tracker project, I haven't decided yet!
The bike is running, but has a lots of parts in boxes so isn't road worthy yet.

I m thinking modify it, as I'm looking for a winter project and have seen some very inspirational 550 cafe racer/brat trackers, but I guess this will be worth more in original spec?

My main questions are mechanical for a first time bike project ...

Are the bolts etc imperial or metric on this year?
Could you recommend an average priced / good quality socket set?
Are there any speciality tools I might need with this honda?

I have a reasonable selection of mechanics tools at the moment, but i'm looking to expand my range. I would also like to know if there are any bike specific tools you guys found have made your lives a lot easier?

I am borrowing a motorcycle bench from my dad, as he has restored a few triumphs in the past.
I am also looking at a cheap parts washer and possibly a soda blaster as I'm planning on doing as much work myself.
I was thinking of doing a complete engine rebuild, but what do you guys think? its currently got 46000 on the clock.

Again I've never taken a bike apart, but I did completely rebuild a Triumph spitfire from the chassis up to a very high standard.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Andy

[mike the bike]

Welcome to the forum from a fellow 400four owner.
Go for the single hex 3/8 sockets; they are less likely to round the bolt heads. 
Pt 2 Phillips screwdriver (with the tip ground off) fits the crankcase screws.
Pt 1 Phillips screwdriver
Impact driver for the hard-to-shift screws.
22mm ring spanner/ socket for the rear wheel.
No doubt you'll add to your toolbox as the need arises.
Mike

[beemsquar]

Cheers guys!

Good advice on the single hex mike, i have never heard of them before but a quick google search shows they are much better for removing rusty bolts.

I have a snap on 3/4 and a mediocre 3/8 set and a  good 3/8 torque wrench too, but was going to buy a new 3/8 set tomorrow as I don't want to be rounding off bolt heads and damaging a nice new painted frame!   

What do you guys think of this set?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Britool-E031806B-8-inch-Socket-Pieces/dp/B004ZDVF2A

Yeah I would like to strip the motor just to be sure, plus that's part of the fun! Would you upgrade anything while you're in there?
I know I will need a new gasket set and cam chain, what about upgrading the carbs?

Are there any online tutorials or books you would recommend for stripping the engine?
I have a haynes for it and was going to buy a Clymer manual too.

Can you recommend any online specialists to get engine parts from and what would you replace as a minimum?

Thanks again for all your help!!!!

[royhall]

Your easiest option for parts is David Silver Spares. Very good online service or phone, not the cheapest but very reliable. Or there's CMS in Holland, and a fair number in Germany plus good old fleabay. Good luck with the build, If you get stuck just ask. Cheers Roy.

[mike the bike]

I'd strip the carbs completely and dunk all of the jets, emulsion tubes into an ultrasonic cleaner One of those little jewellery cleaners will do but bigger is better.

As for the socket set, you don't need the whole kit.  You could buy just the sockets you need;
8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19, 22.
Better than single hex are wall drive sockets.  These grip the walls of the nut or bolt rather than the corners. Like this one...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-WallDrive-Socket-17mm-3-8-Square-Drive-Individual-Impact-Socket-S3817-/191412487348?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c9112c4b4

[andut]

Welcome to the forum Andy !

I'm a few months ahead of you with a similar project and from a similar background !  As others have mentioned, you'll probably find that you have most of the tools required if you have restored cars, but from my experience, I'd say an impact driver and a tap & die set were very useful ! (had to clean out every tapped hole in crankcases after blast cleaning !) and you'll probably want the specialist tools for clutch removal

Parts seem pretty easily available from David Silver etc and the CMSL web site has invaluable diagrams on every part of the bike.  The advice and knowledge here is a priceless commodity and I'll happily answer any Qu's you have if I can - I'm by no means an expert, but there's a good chance that I will have recently done whatever you're about to do !

Enjoy the rebuild and the advice / experience on here, and look forward to getting the bike back on the road (I'm not far off now !)

Andy

[Spitfire]

Hi Andy, watch out for the bolts on a Honda, some are metric fine and some have different sized heads to standard, here is a write up that I got from the Custom Fasteners site when I was ordering bolts for my rebuild.
http://custom-fasteners.co.uk/


IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ BEFORE ORDERING METRIC BOLTS.
Metric bolts in M4, M5, M6, M7 and M8 diameters are suitable for both European and Japanese motorcycles and cars.

However, M10 in the standard 1.50 pitch are only suitable as replacements on European machines. They will not fit Japanese vehicles which use their own specialised fine thread. Please see the next section in the catalogue for our specially produced range of M10 and M12 fine thread bolts for Japanese vehicles.

M10(1.25 pitch) and M12(1.25 pitch) FINE THREAD METRIC BOLTS
For use on Japanese motorcycles and cars. M10(1.25) bolts have a 17mm spanner size, M12(1.25) bolts have a l9mm spanner size. The Japanese often
use a smaller size head on their bolts, so please check there is sufficient clearance for the standard size head we supply, before ordering.


 NOTES ON METRIC BOLTS
M4 fits spanner size 7mm. M4 thread pitch is 0.70mm.
M5 fits spanner size 8mm. M5 thread pitch is 0.80mm.
M6 fits spanner size 10mm. M6 thread pitch is 1.00mm.
M7 fits spanner size 11mm. M7 thread pitch is 1.00mm.
M8 fits spanner size 13mm. (Japanese M8 bolts use 12mm spanner size). M8 thread pitch is 1.25mm.
M10 fits spanner size 17mm. M10 thread pitch is 1.50mm.

[/i]

Cheers

Dennis

[Chris400F]

Hi Andy, Welcome from me to.

If you need to overhaul your carbs then I and a number of others have used the rebuild kits from Cruzinimage.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/cruzinimage-uk1484

They do other parts as well, have a browse through their shop. I recently noticed a master cylinder rebuild kit a lot cheaper than the one I had bought from DS.

[Nurse Julie]

Welcome.
Have fun with your 400/4 and the forum
Julie

[Chris400F]

Forgot to add that you will probably find a Parts List very useful, both for part numbers and to show
where bits go. I got mine from here which seems good value at £12:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Parts-List-Book-CB400F-400-4-400-Four-1970s-Reproduction-Original-Honda-/251407786645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a89126295

[AshimotoK0]

Welcome from me too. I have an 8/75 CB400F myself. Lovely little bikes and much easier to restore now repro parts available.

You can download a Genuine Honda Service (Shop) manual off my Dropbox here for free: Plus parts list.

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/zh31qynxfimw8pb/400_4%20Shop%20Manual.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u51uf0p1dv6m29q/Honda%20CB400%20F%20Parts%20Manual.pdf?dl=0

 What I find as a non-pro is that if the cross head screws are chewed up a bit, reform the cross as best as you can with hammer and flat head punch. Then whack the punch against the head with a hammer to jar the threads and then use a decent fitting crossherad driver to remove. If you hit the head of the driver with a hammer it will reform the crosshead in the screw. If totally knadgered , either use a cold chisel on the side of the screw head to try to tap round or drill out. ALL with great care and attention of course. Impact driver useful of course if you have one but take care not to hit it too hard and not much use if the screw head is f'ed.

Ash

[beemsquar]

All fantastic advice, thank you all  so much!!!!

This is the sort of advice I was hoping for, people who have had first hand experience on these machines who are willing to share their knowledge.

I will download the manuals now and have look over the next couple of days, Socket set is ordered and I have just built myself a nice new workbench in the garage, as the old one wasn't very stable. 
I dont actually have the bike in my possession until Sunday, so just trying to prep my work area as best I can before then.

Looks like there's a few other tools I will need along the way, but I will get them as needed. Although I am in the market for a compressor as my old one went kaput last week! What size unit would you recommend? I had a 25l, but it was forever refilling when using a nail gun, I was looking at a 50l V-twin Wolf cheyenne?

Thank you for all the links, good to know some part supplies that others have used in the past too.

Andy

[Bodd]

I find these to be most helpful, also a decent multimeter.

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[Trigger]

Welcome to the mad world of the SOHC, loads of great advise to be had. I use Metrinch sockets as they will take off any rounded nut or bolt. Britool are a good tool but, the old stuff is a lot more stronger and better made.

[Bryanj]

Just finished a 40+hour week in 3 1/2 days so been a bit tired, for want of a better word.

I concurr with most of the above, not sure but i think britool was bought out by facom.

Personaly i would buy a relatively cheap set of sockets and replace the ones that show signs of wear with quality ones, i still have some from a £3 set ( of 12 sockets) that are unused so it would have been crazy to buy quality for those.

Long, 6 sided sockets are a godsend for things like head nuts and always get 3/8 drive, or maybe even 1/4 drive as they have thinner walls for things like the sump bolts. Also 3/8 drive torque wrench as the 1/2 inch ones tend to not go down low enough

There are two engine special tools needed
(1) castellated clutch nut remover replacer availabale on ebay
(2) rotor puller--for the number of times you would need this probably cheaper to take the crank to a Honda dealer and let them use the special tool---you can get it from dave Silver but its about £35 from memory(and fits all Honda fours )

Chassis wise there are the wheel bearing retainer tools that show on Ebay, but again for one off somebody on here might have one or your local dealer