Post by: Athame57 on April 11, 2023, 03:32:43 AM
.............................................................
Yes, BEVs have been around for over 120 years, technology or innovation has squashed the resurgence of BEVs in the past so there is no reason why a better technology, such as hydrogen, could not eliminate these again. But their future failure will have nothing to do with their weight, the failure will be because having millions of batteries in our world will make people realize that the mining, building and disposing of these chemical and toxic concoctions make BEVs no better for the environment than fossil-fuelled cars.
Battery power is a fad, a selfish choice for the BEV converts, there is no benefit to the environment to have battery-powered cars as these pollute almost as much as petrol cars, all they do is shift the pollution elsewhere, in addition to being a polluting chemical concoction, batteries are also toxic, inefficient and heavy. There is no efficiency in propelling a 2,000kg car nor is it an efficient use of energy when battery power wastes up to 40% of the input energy, in fact, battery power is not a solution to anything at all. Ironically the BEV fad might create the need to build nuclear power stations, if this happens, it will hasten the end of the BEV fad because nuclear stations can be the source of endless green hydrogen to power H2 ICE vehicles. The heat generated by a reactor can make hydrogen before the same heat is used to make electricity. Thermochemical water-splitting processes use high-temperature (500°–2,000°C) to drive a series of chemical reactions that produce hydrogen. The chemicals used in the process are reused creating a closed loop that consumes only water, and produces no pollutants while producing unlimited green hydrogen and oxygen.
Large Battery Electric Vehicles as a replacement of fossil fuels vehicles are the Worst Transportation System ever developed, responsible for causing excess Man-Made Destruction (such as forests in Germany, wilderness in Alaska) and Pollution on Planet Earth…. up-front polluting and water wasting to mine & manufacture, they create a fire danger in your home, are polluting & dangerous to charge, polluting, dangerous & Toxic to dispose of, then, energy-wasting in charging, energy-hungry to propel its 2,000Kg weight and enslave the driver to its charging schedules on top of everything. If the world is serious about reducing pollution and stemming global warming then it should not substitute fossil-fuel burning for batteries that are not much better.
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on April 11, 2023, 06:59:53 AM
My wife is called BEV. She’s not been around for 120 years though.
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Post by: royhall on April 11, 2023, 07:06:46 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on April 11, 2023, 08:57:27 AM
One of the points he made is that legislation is now, mostly dictating the "method" and not the "outcome" in vehicle transportation.
Effectively telling everyone to go electric simply stifling innovation that may result in a combined solution via other method. Its a very blunt instrument for transport future.
The primary limit with mobile electricity storage is that of energy density being atrocious in comparison to liquid fuels. It brings just as many problems as politicians and green washers seem to think it solves. Its often given that the mythical "tech" will solve this element, but more of an illusion in reality, butting it's head against the reality of pure physics.
The current F1 power units are approximately 53% efficient, although complex in design. Their path forward is synthetic fuels to move away from fossil stock.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 11, 2023, 10:14:42 AM
As for nuclear the contaminated cooling water from the Fukushima Daiichi disaster is estimated to take approximately 20- 30 or more years to process. The water is being dumped into the ocean as the level of contaminants including Tritium & other radionuclides is at background levels when diluted with sea water.
Post by: taysidedragon on April 11, 2023, 10:21:30 AM
Post by: Athame57 on April 11, 2023, 10:54:43 AM
Even the EU are now realising the folly of electric vehicles and looking at synthetic fuels for ICE vehicles. Our classic bikes will live for ever!I hope so. Sadiq Khan certainly wants us to be the last. ::)
Post by: Oddjob on April 11, 2023, 01:33:17 PM
Post by: Sesman on April 11, 2023, 01:47:57 PM
Post by: Oddjob on April 11, 2023, 02:02:44 PM
Good god…just like petrol cars😁
That supposes they can't make petrol cars run on alternative fuels, which they could well do.
Post by: K2-K6 on April 11, 2023, 02:24:11 PM
Good god…just like petrol cars😁
That supposes they can't make petrol cars run on alternative fuels, which they could well do.
That's the thinking in research "drop in" compatability with advancing knowledge within ICE architecture.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 11, 2023, 03:39:38 PM
Heat Pumps - another nightmare for the future when they ban gas boilers.
Post by: Oddjob on April 11, 2023, 05:15:33 PM
EV's it's like HMG pushing us into diesel engines a couple of decades ago only on a much bigger scale.
Heat Pumps - another nightmare for the future when they ban gas boilers.
I was thinking of installing a heat pump to run my storage radiators, no gas in my house at all.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 11, 2023, 05:44:54 PM
EV's it's like HMG pushing us into diesel engines a couple of decades ago only on a much bigger scale.
Heat Pumps - another nightmare for the future when they ban gas boilers.
I was thinking of installing a heat pump to run my storage radiators, no gas in my house at all.
Heat pumps work really well in the summer - in the winter when the temperature drops below a certain level (20 to 40 F)you are effectively heating with electricity so not cheap to run unless you have your own solar power & battery storage. They cannot heat normal hot water either. You need really good insulation - something like the equivalent of 6" of Kingspan on all your internal walls plus triple glazing. A porch at the main entry & exit is also handy so you enter effectively via an air lock system - otherwise leaving your front door open for 5 minutes in the winter will take several hours for the temperature to return to pre-door opening levels due to the low temperature gradient between radiators & room.
Post by: sye on April 11, 2023, 05:55:24 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 11, 2023, 05:58:49 PM
That's partially true of air source heat pumps but not ground source.
True but most housing in England do not have a garden big enough for ground source plus you might find your garden is still frozen in spring.
Post by: Multiman on April 11, 2023, 06:04:44 PM
Cousin in Scotland in old terraced house, friend in new built passive house.
Both have air source heat pumps
Both survived winter and were able to have showers with water provided by the heat pump.
The friend in the passive house has energy bills of about 59p per day in the winter.
Petrol head forum puts boot into EV and alt technology shocker! I’m
Post by: Bryanj on April 11, 2023, 06:09:45 PM
We run a hybrid but with family at opposite ends of the country that will be as good as i get!
Post by: Oddjob on April 11, 2023, 06:23:07 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on April 11, 2023, 06:35:14 PM
I have a cousin and a very good friend.
Cousin in Scotland in old terraced house, friend in new built passive house.
Both have air source heat pumps
Both survived winter and were able to have showers with water provided by the heat pump.
The friend in the passive house has energy bills of about 59p per day in the winter.
Petrol head forum puts boot into EV and alt technology shocker! I’m
I can see benefits in different system as comparison, but this one is about insulation, solely.
We've certainly a truly shocking record in domestic housing for insulation in the UK, that'll always compromise energy usage whatever the scource. And certainly not reflecting technical performance new or old type heating method.
We stayed, in winter, with a French family in an old farm building suitably renovated with very significant insulation, plus old wooden shutters to close after dark, leaving a huge still air void in the gap.
Exemplary energy performance, owner was telling me about it as he consulted in this field. Was heated by a ground scource system but in a vertical drilling down in the hundreds of meters, located on granite which he said was particularly suitable.
A very impressive performance, but no real technology used, just a common sense approach.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 11, 2023, 07:20:49 PM
Following our house fire in November 2017 it was rebuilt to comply with the building control regulations that applied in 2018 so we gained 50 mm Kingspan to the full length of the rafters plus an extra 50 mm Kingspan with attached plaster board to the bedroom walls. Slight downside was we lost about 4 inches off the bedroom widths plus some loss of height on the sloping roof - no biggie as the bedrooms are a good size.
Due to this insulated dome effect our bedrooms are very warm in the summer with a huge ceiling fan a must. In the winter all upstairs radiators are off - even without any upstairs heating its generally 72-78 F. Due to my heart condition I prefer the downstairs rooms to be a minimum of 74 F - I wear three layers of upper clothing to be comfortable.
We will never move from our current home. I have neither the funds nor the inclination to go for any sort of heat pump as there would be no economic return to make it viable. Likewise an all EV is just a joke for most older folk imho.
Post by: allankelly1 on April 11, 2023, 07:45:32 PM
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Post by: Moorey on April 11, 2023, 08:17:34 PM
The Zero Avia did their first Hydrogen powered fight earlier this year at Cotswold Airport.
Post by: royhall on May 14, 2023, 06:43:33 PM
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Post by: K2-K6 on May 14, 2023, 08:41:17 PM
Worth a few minutes.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 14, 2023, 09:57:07 PM
About 65 odd years ago when most of us had coal fires and trains were steam driven I remember the smog. Acid rain was named the cause of all sorts of environmental disasters. Then it was CFC's burning a hole in the ozone layer - now it's Diesel & Petrol cars.
In 25 years time when we have moved to heat pumps I suspect it will be the leaking refrigerants to blame. How much natural atmospheric pollution do volcanoes produce I wonder, not to mention all the munitions being exploded in various countries around the world.
The funniest bit is when they blame Cow farts for the excess methane gas - us humans seem reluctant to accept that sometimes the answer is outside our current level of understanding.
I blame Beelzebub if that helps.
Post by: flatfour on May 15, 2023, 07:10:39 PM
In addition, Avgas still contains lead, so not much good for anything with a catalytic convertor fitted.
In general, piston - engine aircraft do not use motor fuel due to risks of vapour lock through ethanol, I understand. In some cases it was deemed possible to use motor fuel, however it involved restrictions on altitude (maximum of 5,000' from memory), measuring fuel temperature before flight and more.
Post by: taysidedragon on May 16, 2023, 02:23:31 PM
Post by: flatfour on May 16, 2023, 03:24:30 PM
Having never operated anything other Group A or B (single and multi - engine landplanes) I don't know whether the additional restrictions that affect Group A are applicable to other categories, or not.
In all likelihood, it also takes account of the fact that runway requirements for ultralights and microlights are minimal, therefore as with a glider there are numerous safe landing areas that larger, heavier aircraft could not use without serious damage and/or injury to occupants.
Post by: Athame57 on May 18, 2023, 05:38:05 PM
It's all a sham They know that population density is the problem and they can't deal with that. The world's population has more than doubled just in my lifetime and they all want transport, feeding, and an ever better standard of living. Genocide anyone.Precious little to do with global warming.... we are in the last third of a receding ice age, of course we'll get cosier!
Post by: K2-K6 on June 09, 2023, 06:50:55 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on June 09, 2023, 07:45:50 PM
Post by: MCTID on June 09, 2023, 09:52:51 PM
I eventually caught up with him and asked him about his plans for the Caravan. He said that he'd realised that he'd dropped a major bollox ! He travelled over (from Blackpool) to Durham to collect the Caravan (as that was the only Dealer who had the exact model he wanted in stock).
From Durham, he drove back home but had to stop at Tebay Services on the Southbound M6 to charge his swanky BMW EV. Roger so far.
At Tebay Services, he had to wait for an hour as there were three other EV's waiting to be charged. In the meantime he had to uncouple his Caravan as he couldn't connect to the EV Charging Point with the Caravan attached. Eventually he charged his swanky EV which took two hours to ensure he could make it home (about 75 miles).....then he had to couple the Caravan up once again before he could continue his journey.
He eventually arrived home and tried to move the Caravan onto his drive........he'd worked out the dimensions and all should have been fine....only he couldn't get the Caravan up the slight incline of his drive - without it grounding at one end or the other. Eventually, he gave up and parked the Caravan on the road....outriggers at both ends deployed - it was 01:30 in the morning and he'd really had enough by then !
He said that he couldn't really envisage taking the Caravan more than 100 miles from Blackpool in future, as he can't be sure of getting home again !
His Wife has a Leased Seat SUV which they are going to change in a few months for a Ford Kuga Diesel......and the first job will be to fit a Towbar so that they can travel further afield with their £32K Caravan and their two lovely kids (and the Dog).
Now my Neighbour is a really smart Guy who earns a good living running his own Computer Consultancy, but given the dilemma that he's experienced over his swanky EV, I wonder how many other less smart people will be drawn into this whole EV debacle and wish they'd thought things trough in a bit more detail before they jumped in to the whole EV nightmare ?
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 09, 2023, 10:27:13 PM
Post by: royhall on June 10, 2023, 05:46:15 AM
Where's your evidence for that statement, debunked years ago that's where. The deniers have been trotting out the ice age theory for years, as well as the one about enhanced solar activity, unfortunately it has been proven beyond doubt that the numbers just don't add up. What does add up is it's man made. You won't hear about population density as it can't be dealt with and it's not PC. In fact your not even allowed to mention it. How your supposed to address a problem that your not allowed to talk about is beyond me. Mankind is the most arrogant species ever to walk the earth, and we have been polluting ourselves to death for donkeys years and finding other reasons to blame it on. They will be telling us next that the oceans are choked with plastic as it's been spewed out of a volcano.It's all a sham They know that population density is the problem and they can't deal with that. The world's population has more than doubled just in my lifetime and they all want transport, feeding, and an ever better standard of living. Genocide anyone.Precious little to do with global warming.... we are in the last third of a receding ice age, of course we'll get cosier!
Post by: Sesman on June 10, 2023, 07:39:43 AM
Post by: sye on June 10, 2023, 08:11:25 AM
We also have an Audi A4 estate for holidays and long trips. The charging infrastructure is crap, that's true and expensive to use.
Post by: andy120t on June 10, 2023, 08:18:34 AM
Post by: Laverdaroo on June 10, 2023, 11:48:38 AM
Where's your evidence for that statement, debunked years ago that's where. The deniers have been trotting out the ice age theory for years, as well as the one about enhanced solar activity, unfortunately it has been proven beyond doubt that the numbers just don't add up. What does add up is it's man made. You won't hear about population density as it can't be dealt with and it's not PC. In fact your not even allowed to mention it. How your supposed to address a problem that your not allowed to talk about is beyond me. Mankind is the most arrogant species ever to walk the earth, and we have been polluting ourselves to death for donkeys years and finding other reasons to blame it on. They will be telling us next that the oceans are choked with plastic as it's been spewed out of a volcano.It's all a sham They know that population density is the problem and they can't deal with that. The world's population has more than doubled just in my lifetime and they all want transport, feeding, and an ever better standard of living. Genocide anyone.Precious little to do with global warming.... we are in the last third of a receding ice age, of course we'll get cosier!
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Post by: JamesH on June 10, 2023, 12:00:17 PM
We've had a Tesla Model 3 long-range since Sept 2021 (well it's my wife's car). She funds it via her employer as a 'salary sacrafice' so the £700/month lease is paid from pre-tax income. So on paper, she's making a 40% saving on the £700/month lease (which I know sounds like/is an eye-watering amount). But on paper it's costing her £420/month.
Performance wise the car is unbelievable. It drives superbly, the Tesla supercharger network is awesome, and the car has covered 18,000 trouble-free miles.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 10, 2023, 12:15:10 PM
Then again my view is irrelevant as out of all the Royals I like Harry & Anne best. ;D ;D ;D
My son in law runs a company Ford Mach E - he says he likes it - when my Jeep fails it's Mot I might go for a petrol Hybrid - the Jeep is 17 years old so might be beyond economic repair on a major Mot fail next year but it passed this month so good for 12 months.
Post by: royhall on June 10, 2023, 01:03:14 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 10, 2023, 02:05:58 PM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1836556/#:~:text=Carbon%20dioxide%20was%20blamed%20for,exposure%20to%20an%20asphyxiant%20gas.
Post by: JamesH on June 10, 2023, 03:38:02 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 11, 2023, 09:09:31 AM
Think of the air quality aspect in cities as well. Imagine the improvement of the quality of the air in central London if it were 100% EV
If it's anything like previous attempts to clean up our industrial pollution it might be just more displacement it might be at the expense of exporting the problem to third world countries. (Flixborough / Bopal different product but multi-nationals exporting pollution)
Post by: Athame57 on June 21, 2023, 10:15:31 PM
And also measurable increases in CO2 in the atmosphere, but that could be volcanoes that were around since time began. ;DAlso the ever increasing consumption of garlic and the gases that produces! ;D
Post by: flatfour on June 24, 2023, 11:01:02 AM
So far we've visited seven major cities (including Tokyo) and I've seen a total of TWO electric cars and absolutely no charging points whatsoever (I have even been to look at four filling station forecourts within half a mile of our latest hotel).
Today, my wife's sister and her husband collected us for lunch (both are Japanese). My brother - in - law has just bought a new car, as he plans to retire from work next year. It is a petrol Hyundai.
I asked whether he had considered electric, to which he looked amazed! As he said, there are no facilities at all for them, and almost all new cars sold are petrol powered, with a very few hybrids in the mix. I then asked about any plans to ban non - electric vehicles from the new car market and was told that the government had made some announcement about looking at things from the mid 2030's, however there were no further details as yet.
Incidentally, his new car has a factory fit TV in the dash panel, available for the driver to view, however it turns to sound only when the vehicle is moving, though displays pictures when stationary in traffic.
We have seen no speed cameras here at all (as usual from previous visits) and, with 21 hotel nights booked so far have not been asked to guarantee anything by credit card or other means, they simply want to know when you will arrive and when you will leave. Most of our hotels are international chains, booked locally over the internet from within Japan.
It all reminds me of how simple and pleasant life was in the U.K. only a few years ago!
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 24, 2023, 11:32:10 AM
Evidently the Jazz has only one gear and no CVT belt etc . Will see how it pans out.
People where I work have Tesla/Jaguar iPace/Hyundai EV's. Not particularly impressed with any of them as when they travel any large distance seem to opt for using their respective partners conventional cars. .... the dash on the Tesla has some interior cappings that look like they have been finished in 1960's wood-effect 'Fablon'.
Post by: Trigger on June 24, 2023, 11:37:32 AM
Last year on the hottest day i was driving back from Barmouth and started noticing electric cars on the sides of the road. 3 between Barmouth and Welshpool, then 4 between Welshpool and Shrewsbury. Pulled in to a layby the other side of Shrewsbury for a rest and noticed a RAC van charging up a car. Had a quick chat with the RAC man and asked, why is there so many electric cars at the side of the road. He replied, because they have the air con on full and that is supping the batteries until they run out.
Post by: Trigger on June 24, 2023, 11:44:12 AM
Just bought at a new Honda Jazz Hybrid .. being delivered on Monday, after a VW transporter wrote my wife Cathy's Yaris off a few weeks back in a massive rear end shunt, when she stopped to let a man & child cross the road.
Evidently the Jazz has only one gear and no CVT belt etc . Will see how it pans out.
People where I work have Tesla/Jaguar iPace/Hyundai EV's. Not particularly impressed with any of them as when they travel any large distance seem to opt for using their respective partners conventional cars. .... the dash on the Tesla has some interior cappings that look like they have been finished in 1960's wood-effect 'Fablon'.
The old Daf cars had only one gear and was on a CVT system ???
Post by: Orcade-Ian on June 24, 2023, 11:58:06 AM
Our Council has just announced a scrappage scheme for older vehicles, whereby they will give you £3k for your old vehicle. Crazy thing is, you have to be on a means tested benefit to qualify. So you DON'T HAVE the extra funds to buy an EV!! Not sure if the intention is that they might get the £3k and use public transport to rid the Islands of a few cars?
It will probably end up like it started - personal transport other than a bicycle (possibly electric) will only be for the elite few.
3 rants used up again today and it's not lunchtime yet!
Ian
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on June 24, 2023, 12:04:01 PM
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Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 24, 2023, 12:08:23 PM
Just bought at a new Honda Jazz Hybrid .. being delivered on Monday, after a VW transporter wrote my wife Cathy's Yaris off a few weeks back in a massive rear end shunt, when she stopped to let a man & child cross the road.
Evidently the Jazz has only one gear and no CVT belt etc . Will see how it pans out.
People where I work have Tesla/Jaguar iPace/Hyundai EV's. Not particularly impressed with any of them as when they travel any large distance seem to opt for using their respective partners conventional cars. .... the dash on the Tesla has some interior cappings that look like they have been finished in 1960's wood-effect 'Fablon'.
The old Daf cars had only one gear and was on a CVT system ???
Yea I know ...the company I worked for in the late 1970's had one as a test rig, as we made the belts for them 'Variomatic' BUT, as I said, no belt in the Honda but the equivalent Toyota Hybrid (Yaris) still has a CVT metal belt transmission system.
Post by: K2-K6 on June 24, 2023, 12:11:35 PM
massive rear end shunt
I think that's what I'd have called the other driver too if they ploughed into the back of me ;D
It's bloody annoying the amount of people driving around often doing something else instead of looking where they are going.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 24, 2023, 12:14:50 PM
Just bought at a new Honda Jazz Hybrid .. being delivered on Monday, after a VW transporter wrote my wife Cathy's Yaris off a few weeks back in a massive rear end shunt, when she stopped to let a man & child cross the road.
Evidently the Jazz has only one gear and no CVT belt etc . Will see how it pans out.
People where I work have Tesla/Jaguar iPace/Hyundai EV's. Not particularly impressed with any of them as when they travel any large distance seem to opt for using their respective partners conventional cars. .... the dash on the Tesla has some interior cappings that look like they have been finished in 1960's wood-effect 'Fablon'.
So is the gearbox a dual clutch automatic or fully manual ?
Post by: K2-K6 on June 24, 2023, 12:18:01 PM
I was in Central London last week (Regents Street etc) and two out of every three cars was electric. Even the taxis.
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I think the London centirc view is quite distorted, particularly about localised emissions etc, they really don't give a stuff about anyone else, or if it's in any way sustainable in regard to overall life emissions of electric vehicle impact on World conditions, or where the power comes from either. They shouldn't be allowed to dictate national policy.
Speaking with a taxi driver friend this week.... £86,0000 to get a "lev c" electric cab, they have a petrol donkey motor in those too to extend range as they can't fit enough battery in with payload etc.
The Utopian voice choir is very loud though.
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on June 24, 2023, 12:24:50 PM
ULEZ coming to a city near you soon.
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Post by: K2-K6 on June 24, 2023, 12:26:31 PM
Just bought at a new Honda Jazz Hybrid .. being delivered on Monday, after a VW transporter wrote my wife Cathy's Yaris off a few weeks back in a massive rear end shunt, when she stopped to let a man & child cross the road.
Evidently the Jazz has only one gear and no CVT belt etc . Will see how it pans out.
People where I work have Tesla/Jaguar iPace/Hyundai EV's. Not particularly impressed with any of them as when they travel any large distance seem to opt for using their respective partners conventional cars. .... the dash on the Tesla has some interior cappings that look like they have been finished in 1960's wood-effect 'Fablon'.
So is the gearbox a dual clutch automatic or fully manual ?
Mostly petrol generator Ted, but with ability to use a conventional traction clutch to connect "generator" unit to wheels at higher speed, likely a 1:1 ratio.
In effect, primarily electric with power reserves at sufficient level, plus generator, plus petrol assist on longer journey.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/honda/jazz-hybrid/
Post by: K2-K6 on June 24, 2023, 12:29:37 PM
And yet all new taxis are electric in London. I don’t see a collapse in numbers.Apparently licensed "black" cab numbers were 25,000 plus over many years, expected to be 15,000 this year. They too are being eaten by Prius and the big oooo-ber.
ULEZ coming to a city near you soon.
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Post by: royhall on June 24, 2023, 12:40:58 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 24, 2023, 12:51:07 PM
Just bought at a new Honda Jazz Hybrid .. being delivered on Monday, after a VW transporter wrote my wife Cathy's Yaris off a few weeks back in a massive rear end shunt, when she stopped to let a man & child cross the road.
Evidently the Jazz has only one gear and no CVT belt etc . Will see how it pans out.
People where I work have Tesla/Jaguar iPace/Hyundai EV's. Not particularly impressed with any of them as when they travel any large distance seem to opt for using their respective partners conventional cars. .... the dash on the Tesla has some interior cappings that look like they have been finished in 1960's wood-effect 'Fablon'.
So is the gearbox a dual clutch automatic or fully manual ?
Mostly petrol generator Ted, but with ability to use a conventional traction clutch to connect "generator" unit to wheels at higher speed, likely a 1:1 ratio.
In effect, primarily electric with power reserves at sufficient level, plus generator, plus petrol assist on longer journey.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/honda/jazz-hybrid/
So it is a sort of Series Hybrid rather than a Parallel Hybrid if I can get my hear around the concept - how economical is it no figures in the article?
Post by: K2-K6 on June 24, 2023, 01:25:53 PM
Why electric? All the things they could do with existing technology ie. maximum car size, maximum car weight, must do 50mpg on the urban cycle, maximum rolling resistance (stops cars like BMW X6's huge tyres) etc etc etc. They could introduce these type of things right now, but not a thing has or will be done. The average miles per gallon today is less than it was in the 60's due in main to the size of the cars. No political will to actually do anything but come up with laws to keep the economy growing. Bottom line, looks good for them and they can sell you something. Green, don't make me laugh.
A good point Roy, something that Pat Symonds in F1 technical said "the aim/desire/target should be specified and not the method" broadly speaking.
Succesive regulation has given us the method, which then looks out of date, stating what the goal is will then accumulate the best thinking etc to achieve that.
The cityscape emissions thinking looks at their own concerns regarding air quality, they don't include power generation etc in their public facing proposals.
Post by: K2-K6 on June 24, 2023, 01:34:53 PM
Just bought at a new Honda Jazz Hybrid .. being delivered on Monday, after a VW transporter wrote my wife Cathy's Yaris off a few weeks back in a massive rear end shunt, when she stopped to let a man & child cross the road.
Evidently the Jazz has only one gear and no CVT belt etc . Will see how it pans out.
People where I work have Tesla/Jaguar iPace/Hyundai EV's. Not particularly impressed with any of them as when they travel any large distance seem to opt for using their respective partners conventional cars. .... the dash on the Tesla has some interior cappings that look like they have been finished in 1960's wood-effect 'Fablon'.
So is the gearbox a dual clutch automatic or fully manual ?
Mostly petrol generator Ted, but with ability to use a conventional traction clutch to connect "generator" unit to wheels at higher speed, likely a 1:1 ratio.
In effect, primarily electric with power reserves at sufficient level, plus generator, plus petrol assist on longer journey.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/honda/jazz-hybrid/
So it is a sort of Series Hybrid rather than a Parallel Hybrid if I can get my hear around the concept - how economical is it no figures in the article?
Yes it seems to be principally electric as first choice, but battery capacity is clearly going to dictate actions from then onward and dependant on user profile. Their dedicated E car has relatively modest battery and range around 120 miles as determined by them that a city transport vehicle has best balance of attributes (payload, weight etc) at that specification. Fit for constricted use profile in other words.
No idea of fuel consumption reality.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 24, 2023, 02:50:33 PM
Just bought at a new Honda Jazz Hybrid .. being delivered on Monday, after a VW transporter wrote my wife Cathy's Yaris off a few weeks back in a massive rear end shunt, when she stopped to let a man & child cross the road.
Evidently the Jazz has only one gear and no CVT belt etc . Will see how it pans out.
People where I work have Tesla/Jaguar iPace/Hyundai EV's. Not particularly impressed with any of them as when they travel any large distance seem to opt for using their respective partners conventional cars. .... the dash on the Tesla has some interior cappings that look like they have been finished in 1960's wood-effect 'Fablon'.
So is the gearbox a dual clutch automatic or fully manual ?
Mostly petrol generator Ted, but with ability to use a conventional traction clutch to connect "generator" unit to wheels at higher speed, likely a 1:1 ratio.
In effect, primarily electric with power reserves at sufficient level, plus generator, plus petrol assist on longer journey.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/honda/jazz-hybrid/
So it is a sort of Series Hybrid rather than a Parallel Hybrid if I can get my hear around the concept - how economical is it no figures in the article?
Yes it seems to be principally electric as first choice, but battery capacity is clearly going to dictate actions from then onward and dependant on user profile. Their dedicated E car has relatively modest battery and range around 120 miles as determined by them that a city transport vehicle has best balance of attributes (payload, weight etc) at that specification. Fit for constricted use profile in other words.
No idea of fuel consumption reality.
I believe (hope that it's in the high 50's) One neighbour and ex-neighbour both have the X-Star version (same engine and drive) and it is reputedly a little bit less economical and they quote 56 and the other 60. As I said though ..we will see how it pans out. A small EV would deffo be a no-no for my wife, as she openly admits, she would constantly be running flat and no way could any of them do a journey to see my daughter & family each week without a recharge mid journey.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 24, 2023, 03:02:43 PM
Post by: Trigger on June 24, 2023, 05:57:00 PM
And yet all new taxis are electric in London. I don’t see a collapse in numbers.
ULEZ coming to a city near you soon.
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I am sure i read somewhere that they made a load of electric only black cabs and then the company told the mayor of London that they required 16,000 charging station just for black cabs, so it went back to the drawing board and they made hybrid taxi's. They can get away with calling them electric as, they are electric motor driven to the wheels but, have a 1500 cc petrol engine to charge the battery.
I read in a mag latterly that they have been told to only run with the electric when they have a fare on board, and run on the petrol engine to charge up when, no fare is on board .
Post by: taysidedragon on June 24, 2023, 06:08:01 PM
A good friend of mine has a Toyota Auris Estate - Petrol self charging Hybrid it's always well over 50 mpg even including local runs.
These hybrid fuel figures are pretty crap. My 1.5 diesel Kadjar has just averaged 59.9 mpg over 480 miles including traffic holdups. 👍
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 24, 2023, 06:34:34 PM
However to put that into perspective I spent £1341.14 on diesel in my motor in 2022 up from £857.04 in 2021 so if I could find a SUV that did 50 mpg I would save around £675 in fuel costs.
Trouble is at the age of 75 with a vehicle worth £1500 ish in part exchange how much would I need to spend to actually save any money within my likely life span?
I currently fancy a Toyota Rav4 but would need to fork out £18k to get a decent one to last me - hence why I will run thew Jeep until it fails another Mot might be next year might be the year after.
Post by: Oddjob on June 24, 2023, 06:42:31 PM
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on June 24, 2023, 07:24:07 PM
Hybrids or not.
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 24, 2023, 07:30:35 PM
ULEZ still coming.I never drive into London or any other City if it ULEZ I'd soon go 100 % online and pay carriage.
Hybrids or not.
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Just hope my Gas boiler out lives me
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 24, 2023, 07:31:37 PM
ULEZ still coming.
Hybrids or not.
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Sadly I don't even know what that means Steve
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 24, 2023, 07:41:10 PM
I'd vote for him what will the world do about a country that contributes a whopping 1% of the world pollution. 🍺🍺🍺
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 24, 2023, 07:48:08 PM
My 2.2 Twin Turboed Diesel Mazda 3 returns 50-60mpg most times, even in traffic it doesn't go below 45mpg and costs £20 a year to tax. Bugger that for part exing for an electric car. Mate of mine had a breakdown and had to hire an electric car to go to Scotland to visit relatives, took him 11 hours to get them because they had to stop and recharge so often. Not a fan.Any car that runs on diesel not an option Ken as wife is acute asthmatic and wont' have a diesel at any cost .. modern diesels probably a lot better but as she says ..you could shell out tons of money on one only to find that driving it makes you ill Simply not worth the risk.
Post by: Oddjob on June 24, 2023, 08:44:03 PM
Post by: Orcade-Ian on June 24, 2023, 08:55:24 PM
[attach=1]
Ian
Post by: Laverda Dave on June 24, 2023, 09:30:45 PM
ULEZ still coming.
Hybrids or not.
And 92% of those who took part in the so called ULEZ consultation (me being one of them) said 'No' to ULEZ expansion but that didn't stop the mayor imposing it! The mayor didn't even wait for the results of his own ULEZ consultation before spending £50M buying the ULEZ camera's. When the results of the consultation were made public the mayor didn't like the figures against his proposals and he disqualified 5000 of the votes!
Democracy in action and the reason I will never vote labour again.
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Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 24, 2023, 11:08:37 PM
Test drive Ash?
She won't drive anything that she doesn't own outright either a loan or demonstrator vehicle. That's why we have had a Yaris Hybrid (loan car from insurance company) outside our house for 3 weeks that has literally moved only about 600 mm :) I went to it after 2 weeks and flashed up 'No EV' ..then after weekend away, the batteries were totally flat and I couldn't even open it with the remote. Told them to take it away but blokes who came for it didn't have a clue where the battery was ..so I Googled it and we found it under the back seat.
Post by: Athame57 on June 25, 2023, 04:43:18 AM
ULEZ still coming.All we can do is get rid of Sadiq Khan who is incapable of taking no for an answer. But at least I escape his TfL tax... oops I mean ULEZ because like a lot of people around here I ride a historic vehicle! ;D
Hybrids or not.
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 25, 2023, 10:02:13 AM
Test drive Ash?
She won't drive anything that she doesn't own outright either a loan or demonstrator vehicle. That's why we have had a Yaris Hybrid (loan car from insurance company) outside our house for 3 weeks that has literally moved only about 600 mm :) I went to it after 2 weeks and flashed up 'No EV' ..then after weekend away, the batteries were totally flat and I couldn't even open it with the remote. Told them to take it away but blokes who came for it didn't have a clue where the battery was ..so I Googled it and we found it under the back seat.
Not the same but related when I had a 3 series Beamer the battery was close to flat so I ordered a replacement from Tanya it was in the Christmas period period so it was a few days before I got round to fitting it.
Remote would not open the door so tried using the key after 5 mins spent with WD40 to get the key lock flap to open - then another 10 minutes to get the key past halfway mark - boot has no key slot it works on remote only - appears no internal boot release either, I ended up plugging a battery charger into the fag lighter socket with the ignition key turned on - that was just enough to make the boot open via the fob!
Post by: allankelly1 on June 25, 2023, 10:06:10 AM
ULEZ still coming.Bring it on
Hybrids or not.
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A black and silver number plate is not yet recognised by ANPR due to the technology looking for dark characters on a light background
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 25, 2023, 11:05:16 AM
Post by: allankelly1 on June 25, 2023, 11:33:31 AM
No not yet
At the moment all my efforts are being placed in getting this toy progressed that eats into both time and money
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230625/f2bd3b8ede424286b1c898bcb3cf9c4e.jpg)
This is the rear caliper hanger that was a one off design that I got last week
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230625/78972f09a71e6a758c25e0f479287bad.jpg)
And just finished off the carb build
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230625/7ef9377846ad38a36f002311d4297933.jpg)
Plenty of time yet as planning early retirement so will need stuff to keep me busy
Best wishes Al
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 25, 2023, 11:36:42 AM
I don't recognise the engine a twin of some sort?
Yamaha?
Post by: allankelly1 on June 25, 2023, 11:40:25 AM
You have been watching too much Goblin Works Garage - it's looking cool though. 8) 8) 8) 8)Even engine is a hybrid Yamaha motor
I don't recognise the engine a twin of some sort?
Yamaha?
RD350LC bottom end fitted with RD 350 air cooled barrels and heads
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Post by: Laverdaroo on June 26, 2023, 02:04:13 PM
loving the new shots mate, those carbs are epic!
Post by: allankelly1 on June 26, 2023, 02:09:21 PM
You didleaveitin yourwilltome as agreed Al?
loving the new shots mate, those carbs are epic!
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Post by: allankelly1 on June 26, 2023, 02:09:34 PM
You didleaveitin yourwilltome as agreed Al?
loving the new shots mate, those carbs are epic!
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Post by: Multiman on July 04, 2023, 01:59:32 PM
700miles + range, 10min charge time claimed.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on July 04, 2023, 02:12:47 PM
700miles + range, 10min charge time claimed.
You’d have to live next to a power station.
How many amps is that?
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Post by: Laverdaroo on July 04, 2023, 04:23:38 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230704/c7c95b9d7130ebab23ebde1014ebfdd1.jpg)
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 04, 2023, 04:37:54 PM
Post by: Multiman on July 04, 2023, 05:19:24 PM
Post by: royhall on July 06, 2023, 10:31:15 AM
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 06, 2023, 10:52:17 AM
Apparently they are about to dig up 70 billion tons of Norway for phosphorus rock for electric car battery production. Well I hope all the diggers and mining equipment are battery powered. What utter bullshit, the world's gone mad.
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Read somewhere that there is some more essential raw materials in Cornwall for manufacuring batteries - a return to mining eh the holiday home owners will love that if it's opencast !
Post by: Orcade-Ian on July 06, 2023, 03:59:20 PM
Thatcham have just issued an analysis of recent insurance claims and guess what? EV's are 25.5% more costly to repair and take 14% longer - IF they can be repaired at all as many have battery damage which usually writes them off.
Glad I'm old!
Ian
Post by: JamesH on July 06, 2023, 05:36:22 PM
Apparently they are about to dig up 70 billion tons of Norway for phosphorus rock for electric car battery production. Well I hope all the diggers and mining equipment are battery powered. What utter bullshit, the world's gone mad.Lol. We only burnt circa 4.2 billion tons of oil in 2021. At least the contents of the batteries can be recycled.
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Post by: Multiman on July 07, 2023, 09:50:35 AM
They are planning to extract via "Lithium Brine" so no open cast mining and second home owners can rest assured.
"The environmental impacts depend on the extraction methods used. Cornish Lithium are planning to directly extract the lithium from the fluids in a processing unit that will have a footprint the size of a supermarket or medium sized industrial unit. Direct extraction of lithium from geothermal fluids using cutting-edge technology is the most environmentally responsible method available, and Cornish Lithium will strive to ensure that the impacts of the project are kept to a minimum"
Post by: Multiman on July 07, 2023, 10:29:48 AM
This is actually a good news story as previous to this discovery there was a critical global phosphorus shortage which is used in solar panels and electronics as well as batteries.
The 70 billion tons quoted will last for 100 years so its not happening overnight.
I'm sure Norway will do it in as green a fashion as possible as they have loads of money and are a very green nation generally.
For a bit of perspective globally we dig up 3 billion tons of metal ores every year, so in a century thats 300 billion.
Post by: royhall on July 07, 2023, 10:36:14 AM
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Post by: Multiman on July 07, 2023, 11:29:47 AM
I don’t know any more than the next person that EVs are THE solution but they are a solution that works for now.
There are huge challenges to the whole question of energy supply going forward, infrastructure, generation etc but anything that makes it possible for us to burn less stuff and makes the UK as a country less dependent on other countries gets my vote.
Post by: Multiman on July 07, 2023, 11:47:19 AM
They have to be heated up before starting or they will seize and only run for a few hundred miles before having to be rebuilt.
If fuelled by hydrogen or other green hydrocarbons they will still pollute as they produce nitrous oxides during combustion.
This can be reduced but not eliminated by catalysts but they use up precious metals that are in short supply.
Every solution has issues, the jury is out.
Post by: Oddjob on July 07, 2023, 04:31:19 PM
Post by: Multiman on July 07, 2023, 04:40:48 PM
It is much cleaner than burning hydrocarbons though.
If you react hydrogen in a fuel cell there is just water as a byproduct and you generate electricity.
Post by: Athame57 on July 07, 2023, 06:32:11 PM
'They have to be heated up before starting or they will seize and only run for a few hundred miles before having to be rebuilt.'I don't get it. What do we do to heat our engine before we turn that key or stand on that kick start?
Post by: Multiman on July 07, 2023, 06:50:11 PM
Once some expansion has taken place it's safe to start them.
Amazing and beautiful engineering but not very practical on a daily basis.
Post by: Athame57 on July 07, 2023, 07:43:33 PM
My understanding is that F1 engines are made to such tight tolerances that they have to pump hot water through the cooling system to warm the engine before starting.Well, I'm glad my Suzuki RG500s had a bit of leeway then, that would have been a pain in the butt! :o
Once some expansion has taken place it's safe to start them.
Amazing and beautiful engineering but not very practical on a daily basis.
Post by: Oddjob on July 08, 2023, 07:21:32 AM
Unfortunately if you burn hydrogen in the presence of nitrogen (our atmosphere is 78% nitrogen) it produces nitrous oxides.
It is much cleaner than burning hydrocarbons though.
If you react hydrogen in a fuel cell there is just water as a byproduct and you generate electricity.
True but if the engine is made so it lean burns it doesn't produce any or as much NOX but we do get a reduction in fuel efficiency. This may change as we get more knowledge of how to control the burn, ICE though don't really contribute that much NOX, it's burning it in homes that appears to be detrimental. This is of course at present, things may change in even a few years.
Post by: K2-K6 on July 08, 2023, 09:10:33 PM
My understanding is that F1 engines are made to such tight tolerances that they have to pump hot water through the cooling system to warm the engine before starting.
Once some expansion has taken place it's safe to start them.
Amazing and beautiful engineering but not very practical on a daily basis.
Likely that's the reality, but unlikely it's derived from the efficiency angle.
They have 266cc cylinders, run on restricted fuel specification, boosted at 50 psi, have maximum fuel flow limits, no increase in fuel allowed over 10500 rpm, make roughly 840 bhp (without electric addition) have to last minimum number of races, try to give that output throughout their service life without significant drop.
The focus is ultimately performance, efficiency stated is just a byproduct and not the reasoning for such tight tolerance.
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 08, 2023, 09:45:14 PM
My understanding is that F1 engines are made to such tight tolerances that they have to pump hot water through the cooling system to warm the engine before starting.
Once some expansion has taken place it's safe to start them.
Amazing and beautiful engineering but not very practical on a daily basis.
Likely that's the reality, but unlikely it's derived from the efficiency angle.
They have 266cc cylinders, run on restricted fuel specification, boosted at 50 psi, have maximum fuel flow limits, no increase in fuel allowed over 10500 rpm, make roughly 840 bhp (without electric addition) have to last minimum number of races, try to give that output throughout their service life without significant drop.
The focus is ultimately performance, efficiency stated is just a byproduct and not the reasoning for such tight tolerance.
Mind boggling technology :o