Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 19, 2021, 01:14:28 PM
My dismantling photos are not to be relied on as the shifter might not have been in the corect position.
I've got neutral - I dont even know how the gears go !
Is it one up and five down or one down and five up?
A photo of someones lever when in neutral showing the mechanism would be helpful plus the shifter sequence please?
Post by: allankelly1 on November 19, 2021, 01:15:57 PM
As for position what ever suits your riding style
Best wishes Al
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 19, 2021, 01:25:55 PM
1 down then neutral then 5 upThanks Allan is pedestrian sit up and beg a recognised style? Have you got the date for your op or is it classified? Cheers Ted
As for position what ever suits your riding style
Best wishes Al
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Post by: allankelly1 on November 19, 2021, 01:27:35 PM
Possible date is in two weeks or the next avaliable date is 13 December
Let hope I still fit those rear sets and drops in the spring
Ps shifter sequence is on the outside cover
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 19, 2021, 05:03:12 PM
Hi Ted
Ps shifter sequence is on the outside cover
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The things I never notice until someone points out the obvious - so it is Allan - I feel suitably stupid for asking!
Another issue to resolve:- Even thought the pivot bracket was nicely painted the lever rocks all over the shop on the pivot boss so either the lever is worn or it's the pivot itself.
The hole in the lever boss looked pretty good and round so I'm thinking its the pivot assembly - not available from DS.
Whats the best fix - have the shaft reduced and a sleeve fitted on top or would a machine shop make up a new pivot - sound like more expense?
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51689999707_f04d4b0167_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mKEL4v)gear lever pivot (https://flic.kr/p/2mKEL4v) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
. Free DS advert
Post by: taysidedragon on November 19, 2021, 06:01:04 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 19, 2021, 08:05:43 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 19, 2021, 08:19:26 PM
My lever was completely knackered after a drop by the PO and the chrome was completely gone as that side of the bike was parked up in 1981 next to an open barn window so copped the lot.
I crashed out on the £44 jobby off fleabay but even that was a bad fit and had to have the old rod re chromed and finished to make it work. Bit miffed but a perfect case of pattern part mis fit, I'd not experienced it at all on all the A/M bits I'd bought until I got this, It was nearly 20mm too long and if cut to the right size would have removed all but a 'midge's' of thread on either end which I wasn't keen on.
Reported back to them and got a discount but really annoying when on the final assembly!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 19, 2021, 08:34:28 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 19, 2021, 09:05:50 PM
£70's a bit steep mate. Have you had a good scan about abroad for reasonable used one?
Have you tried CBfour.com? drop them an email (info@cb-four.de) direct it to a guy called 'Hubertus Wilke' (top name, should have been a mad professor ;D) I fire him all sorts of questions on parts and he has bent over backwards to help me out, he may even have the clutch holder ring youre after for your cable routing questions on the other thread as they break bikes all the time.
The service is fantastic as youd expect so theyre worth a shout mate if you haven't already.
There's a translation option top left once ypu get there 8)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 19, 2021, 09:22:30 PM
Post by: Bryanj on November 20, 2021, 03:30:01 PM
Would be a one off special but look std and work
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 20, 2021, 04:46:09 PM
Me, i would cut off the pin, drill and tap the bracket then make a new pin to lockite in to the correct diameter afterreaming theedal round.
Would be a one off special but look std and work
I like your thinking Bryan that would definitely work - on Monday I'm going to try to measure up the pivot lug & the inside of the gear change pedal tube to identify where most of the wear is.
I know the gear change works okay with the wear as it is but I can't live with it.
Update: I've measure the hole in the gear lever shaft with my calipers so measurements are basic.
Hole measurement nearest frame (roughly horizontal) is 12.28 mm and at 90 degees rotation it's 12.33 mm - that's an ovalation of 0.05 mm. Thats about 19 thousandths of an inch.
Hole measurement at the circlip end (roughly horizontal) is 12.30 and at 90 dgrees rotation it's 12.39 mm - that's an ovalation of 0.09 mm. That's about 35 thousandths of an inch.
Clearly much more ovalation where one might expect it where the lever is closer to the outer edge of the tube . That explains why it wobbles / moves so much.
Not done the pivot yet as I really need to take it off the frame.
Post by: Bryanj on November 20, 2021, 07:56:08 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 21, 2021, 12:02:28 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 21, 2021, 01:39:22 PM
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51695502824_816df9369e_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mL9XWQ)gear lever ball joint (https://flic.kr/p/2mL9XWQ) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 21, 2021, 06:40:06 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 21, 2021, 06:51:09 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 21, 2021, 06:55:03 PM
I'm wondering Ted why Honda made the gear lever curved, is it so it avoids hitting anything?
I think it was simply to make a mundane looking, vital part have some form of artistic presence as well Ken. It's similar to thee swoop of the headers etc.....I'd like to think anyway.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 21, 2021, 10:43:58 PM
Ted, I'll fish my old change assembly out and bob a piccie up on here. If any bits are betterer than the bits you have its yours mate, If it saves an unexpected faff, it might help you out buddy ;) :)
Hi Roo,
I've PM'd you - Ted
Post by: K2-K6 on November 21, 2021, 11:25:27 PM
I'm wondering Ted why Honda made the gear lever curved, is it so it avoids hitting anything?
I think it was simply to make a mundane looking, vital part have some form of artistic presence as well Ken. It's similar to thee swoop of the headers etc.....I'd like to think anyway.
It may be as a small guide to prevent the side of your boot getting between the main lever and the other part of the mechanism without having to make a specific "shield" to achieve it.
[attachimg=1]
CB 350 Four is other way curved.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 22, 2021, 11:34:15 AM
No Ted, the pivot pin located on the footrest bar was what I meant.
I've ordered a new lever from Bertums so we will see how bad it it.
This is the back of the pivot pin Ken.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51698093365_b8de130c49_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mLof2k)back of lever pivot pin (https://flic.kr/p/2mLof2k) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Bryanj on November 22, 2021, 12:13:51 PM
Post by: TrickyMicky on November 22, 2021, 12:26:52 PM
I'm sure that you, me, and many others here were brought up with a view to a certain amount of mechanical sympathy. One of the old adages that was drummed into me was "if it moves, oil it". I shouldn't think many of these original gear linkages saw a drop of grease in their life. I've been very fortunate that I bought my bike in 1988 from an enthusiast, and it's had a fair bit of TLC ever since. I am still running the original gear linkage, but I had it re-chromed about 5 years ago. So, I know you won't forget to fill that mid section of the spigot with grease, and if you can, get hold of an aerosol can of 'dry' grease with a nozzle and fill inside the rubbers on the rose joints. Have fun. Mike.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 22, 2021, 04:42:33 PM
Hi Ted, I think I'm correct in saying that many of us here are in a fairly similar age group, and can possibly remember when these bikes were introduced. It was a time of 400/4's, Yam LC hooligan bikes, Kawasaki 3 cylinder suicide missiles. The young wannabees that bought them just filled the petrol tanks, kicked the tyres, and wrung their throttle cables to breaking point. The fact that so many of them survived says a lot about the build quality!I loaded a syringe without a needle to pump the joints full of grease!
I'm sure that you, me, and many others here were brought up with a view to a certain amount of mechanical sympathy. One of the old adages that was drummed into me was "if it moves, oil it". I shouldn't think many of these original gear linkages saw a drop of grease in their life. I've been very fortunate that I bought my bike in 1988 from an enthusiast, and it's had a fair bit of TLC ever since. I am still running the original gear linkage, but I had it re-chromed about 5 years ago. So, I know you won't forget to fill that mid section of the spigot with grease, and if you can, get hold of an aerosol can of 'dry' grease with a nozzle and fill inside the rubbers on the rose joints. Have fun. Mike.
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 22, 2021, 08:28:40 PM
The trouble with the ball joints is that even new there is a lot of movement not meant to be present. That's why I replaced mine with proper Rose joints and now there is no slack at all present. Yes grease will help but it won't cure what is frankly a poor substitute for a proper Rose Joint.
I'd agree 100% with the lack of grease on the pivot pin, even when they were still fairly new it was not uncommon to have the gear lever vibrating around like it had Dementia.
If the new footrest is ok can I have the old one to play with Ted, I may be able to come up with a solution that not only replaces the entire lever setup but also encompasses a pivot point that is sealed and thus holds grease.
I have one complete Ken if you want that?
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 23, 2021, 10:50:00 PM
Happy to try stuff for you buddy, thats no probs. It's as I took it off the bike with everything there. Even the pinch bolt I think that locks it to the splines.
Im away with work for a night but send me a reminder poke tomorrow and I'll dig it out when I get back. I know where its at so should only take a few mins and I can send you some piccies first if you like?
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 24, 2021, 04:26:54 PM
The chrome on the splined end is surprisingly good - nice link bar - the main lever is a tad duller than the photo but still good value for £44.50. I need to get a new circlip the old one is in poor condition - I used a sump plug washer on either side to make it a nice fit. Yeah they are alloy but until I find the right sizes in SS they will do.
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 24, 2021, 06:34:33 PM
Im in the middle of a scrap clearout at the min at home and its earmarked for the bin, just PM me your address and I'll send it over regardless, its all there and I'd hate to bin it if you can use it.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 25, 2021, 04:33:17 PM
Just mention it in case anyone with big feet like buys one.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 26, 2021, 09:37:45 AM
What is the measurements of both please Ted so I can compare with my mod.
In the absence of air gauges or laser tools the best I can do is measure from the centre of the pivot to the imaginary centre of the toe end part as if it were a flat plane.
I drew a circle inside the pivot hole onto a card then dropped down vertically as accurately as possible from the toe end centre point using my calipers.
I figure this represents the actual leverage as it eliminates the curve.
The Honda part the length between these two points was 115 mm.
On my Bertrums one (visually lacks the curve) it was 110 mm.
E&OE
Post by: K2-K6 on November 26, 2021, 11:02:24 AM
As noted, it's perception from the comparison photos but maybe no difference in reality.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 26, 2021, 11:50:23 AM
I don't know if it's the angle of the photo in your other thread Ted, but is the dimension from main lever pivot point to the centre of first ball joint the same as original? The new one looks shorter than original part (in photos) which would need more movement of the foot end to get the same gearbox transaction.
As noted, it's perception from the comparison photos but maybe no difference in reality.
The replacement arm is wider at that point so looks squatter - the difference if there is any is very small.
Likewise the arm on the splines certainly looks different but is pretty much indentical in terms of leverage.
Having big feet means the shift pedal end will be further away from my toes nearer the top of my Tarsal bones (tarsuls / talas)!