Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: paulbaker1954 on March 29, 2018, 12:09:42 AM
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Hopefully all are aware that from 20th May Historic vehicles no longer need an MOT. This decision has spawned much debate in the classic community.
Interested in fellow owners opinions as to whether they will continue to mot their bikes every year or not
For me I probably won’t bother as I know that I maintain my bike better than most “newish” machines out there and I trust my mechanical skills and knowledge of my bike more than some testers out there.
Why would I want to risk life and limb on a dangerous machine. After all an MOT only says it was ok on the day it was tested.
Interestingly on my way back from mot last year with a pass with no advisories I noticed the top yoke had split on the rhs and the tester never spotted it!! Makes you think don’t it !!!
I keep all receipts etc. for any work done including oil changes etc etc that any future buyer can see and understand that this is a well maintained and cherished bike. After If I ever sell I can always get an mot done for a buyer if they want peace of mind.
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I doubt that I will go to the trouble of travelling 20 miles into Kirkwall (and, hopefully back!) to get mine done - and like most of us there’s more than 1. What I would like to do is have someone with a critical, classic eye give it the once over to make sure I didn’t miss anything which could be dangerous - split pins missing cracked tyre valves and the like. Like you I am confident doing anything on my vehicles. Perhaps we might set up a breakfast meet where we can check each other’s work?
Ian
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I will still get mine tested, insurance companies can and will use no MOT as a reason to not pay out, and let's not forget the ones that just see it as a saving and are too stupid and or lazy to maintain their vehicles, after all its only a few pounds for a little peace of mind.
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What is the position once we are past 20th May?
I currently have some bikes that will not need MOT's until after 20th May so is there something that one has to do once the existing MOT expires (every year?) or do nothing?
What is the position with those on which the MOT will have expired before the 20th May?
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Taken from the Carol Nash web site.
Owners of some classic bikes will be spared the annual trip to the MoT station after the government announced plans to exempt vehicles over 40 years old from the annual MoT test.
Previously vehicles manufactured before 1960 were exempt from the annual inspection but the new rules mean some 50,000 or so more bikes do not need an MoT test.
The new rules, which come in during May 2018, bring Britain in line with most of the rest of Europe and will work on a rolling 40 year basis. As of next spring, all bikes built before 1978 will fall under the new rules, meaning that classic bikes like Triumph Bonnevilles, Honda’s iconic CB750 and the Kawasaki Z1 will, in theory, be cheaper to own and run.
The 40 year rule also applies to vehicle excise duty (road tax), which are exempt from any fees, although riders will still be required to have valid insurance for their classic bikes.
These new regulations also apply to classic cars and do place an emphasis on owners to ensure their vehicles are in a roadworthy state. While an MoT certificate will no longer be compulsory, drivers and riders may still present their vehicles for a voluntary MoT test and it remains their responsibility to ensure that their vehicles have no defects that would see it fail the government tests when they take to the public roads.
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These new regulations also apply to classic cars and do place an emphasis on owners to ensure their vehicles are in a roadworthy state. While an MoT certificate will no longer be compulsory, drivers and riders may still present their vehicles for a voluntary MoT test and it remains their responsibility to ensure that their vehicles have no defects that would see it fail the government tests when they take to the public roads.
And that will be the ball breaker, insurance companies will look for the slightest excuse not to pay out.
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i get all the rule changes..but does anyone kmow if it is automtic or do you need a trip to the post office..to apply for a new taxation class
also does a bike/car need a current mot before the change to prove it exists...same applies to imported vehicles...as it stands the mot proves in a way to dvla it is real....
otherwise its going to be a free for all ...
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Imported vehicles WILL still require an M.O.T. as part of the registration process. What REALLY scares me is the amount of scrap that will be put back on the roads, stuff people have kept in barns etc, and never bothered doing safety critical welding etc but can now put back on the road and sell on e-bay! Think Mk1 Escorts, rusty Cortinas/Capris etc! :o :o :o :'( :'( :'(
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These new regulations also apply to classic cars and do place an emphasis on owners to ensure their vehicles are in a roadworthy state. While an MoT certificate will no longer be compulsory, drivers and riders may still present their vehicles for a voluntary MoT test and it remains their responsibility to ensure that vehicles have no defects that would see it fail the government tests when they take to the public roads.
And that will be the ball breaker, insurance companies will look for the slightest excuse not to pay out.
That applies every day to every vehicle now. If on the public road your vehicle must be roadworthy.
No change there.
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These new regulations also apply to classic cars and do place an emphasis on owners to ensure their vehicles are in a roadworthy state. While an MoT certificate will no longer be compulsory, drivers and riders may still present their vehicles for a voluntary MoT test and it remains their responsibility to ensure that vehicles have no defects that would see it fail the government tests when they take to the public roads.
And that will be the ball breaker, insurance companies will look for the slightest excuse not to pay out.
True but it will now be down to you and an insurance company will be looking for the slightest get out ;)
That applies every day to every vehicle now. If on the public road your vehicle must be roadworthy.
No change there.
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i get all the rule changes..but does anyone kmow if it is automtic or do you need a trip to the post office..to apply for a new taxation class
also does a bike/car need a current mot before the change to prove it exists...same applies to imported vehicles...as it stands the mot proves in a way to dvla it is real....
otherwise its going to be a free for all ...
You can change the taxation class at the post office like I did last year. Take your V5 doc.
Looking on other sites you will need to get a form from the post office or online to claim for mot exemption can't remember the number, if I can find it again I will post it.
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V112
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;) ive tried to sit on the fence about this but when was the last time that motorists have been given anything ?
anyway i wont be bothering with MOT'S after this may .unless i decide to sell the bike and only then if the buyer asks for one i have always had at least five bikes on the road and this will save me £150 that will go towards petrol tax vat and all the other garbage we pay for
i believe the modern MOT rules regarding the older bikes and cars do not comply with todays standard of braking and exhaust noise and emissions,if we had too adhere to those rules none of us would be even haveing this conversation we would all be zombie car drivers
we all know what brittish bike brakes are like and i drove a 3 litre FORD CAPRI and mini coopers for years a super tanker could stop quicker than any car made in the 60's and 70's
i think we should enjoy this little bit of freedom while it lasts because the clowns we have in power will take it back another way. just think of the traffic congestion potholes and poisonous exhaust fumes you will be saved by not running the gauntlet every year for the sake of a bit of paper, so get out on that jap crap and britt shit and enjoy another crap brittish summer we are all to too old to give a toss anyway we have paid enough into the system allready
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Definitively off the fence then …
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Well said Mr Meldrew. I won't be bothering with an MOT either. I can look after my own bike well enough, having spanners every single nut and bolt on it.
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The insurance companies could specify that you have to have one if you want cover from them. Just like some specify you must have locks or alarms fitted.
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Well you have to be a special kind of stupid not to cover your own arse, because rest assured your own insurance companies already have, my bikes will be tested no matter what the costs.
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Could one of you who understands the DVLA nuances please clarify, my bike was first registered in Feb '77, do I have to wait till May 20th to register it as Historic, or can I do it now? Quite pertinent as I am about to tax the machine. Thanks
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Nearest mot station is 20 miles each way and employs several fairly awful testers, not that they are all bad but last mot' s I had from them they failed a set of shockers on my kh125, ( none serviceable type ) I felt those along with a few other fail items that essentially put the bike past being worth saving. 6 months down the line I fitted the same rear shocks to a gs125, without even cleaning them, that bike passed with no advisories with the same tester. After a lecture when it failed that they were way too soft to be safe and a tour of a new bike in their workshop that pointed out a few things where basically a cheap 125cc commuter that was 1/4 of a centuary old was never built to that standard so testing it to his standard was silly and some test procedures like lifting both wheels off the floor so all weight went though the side stand of the bike to test headset bearings - it had a center stand so why do that? And the mot tester checking for corrosion on the swing arm by battering it with a stick welders slag hammer - well not using that tester again, next garage doing bike mots is 35 miles each way. No, I will not be bothering with an mot if I can do without. Too many cowboys in the garage industry. Only reason I learnt to do my own mechanical work is it's too easy to get charged the earth for bad workmanship. Some of the worst mechanical faults I have seen on my vehicles have come from mot testers who were given jobs because they were supposedly competent - I changed garages for the car last year after one place I though was good managed on a £700 Bill to leave me with a loose gearbox filler bolt that lost the gearbox oil, a new wiper blade that flew off as soon as we used the wipers - I was damn lucky to spot the oil on my drive when the wife took the car out and investigate as it had next to no oil and a drive shaft seal ruined was only damage. Potential for massive expense. After that I would prefer to go around my bike before every ride, get to know it really well and just be in the habit of doing those checks regularly. Give me an mot certificate it's easier to just jump on and go, content with having that bit of paper. The bit of paper proves very little, I have had bikes where the rear wheel has locked 20 yards from the mot place thanks to cheap brake shoes, and even had a frame snap from internal corrosion. That day it takes to get mot man to run the test and me to ride there is better spent doing a really good service, I have on 3 occasions now found brake linings that passed an mot but where the linings are comming unstuck and these were spotted during routine strip down and greasing of brake pivots.
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Could one of you who understands the DVLA nuances please clarify, my bike was first registered in Feb '77, do I have to wait till May 20th to register it as Historic, or can I do it now? Quite pertinent as I am about to tax the machine. Thanks
Thought the historic tax rollover will apply from April, so I presume you can do it from then. But you will need an MOT as the MOT change will not occur until May20th.
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I have top agree with Matthew, the standard of workmanship is a joke, it irks me to pay the £29 for the work they do.
I'm chief mechanic/engineer for a drag bike race team, we have to go through scrutineering every meeting besides theres no way I would send the rider out on something unsafe so I'm happy to check my own work. I won't be MOTing my exempt bikes.
However I do worry that there will be lots of unsafe stuff out there once this starts. I worked in MOTing and have seen some of the bikes ridden in, one particularly nice CB750 had an astonishing amount of swing arm play that we failed, the owner was most upset arguing there was nothing wrong with it.
I have XS1100's as well as Hondas, they are a big heavy 135mph motorcycle, the first ones built will be eligible for MOT exemption. Some of the questions we get asked on the owners forum makes me think there will be a lot ridden in seriously unsafe condition.
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Well you have to be a special kind of stupid not to cover your own arse, because rest assured your own insurance companies already have, my bikes will be tested no matter what the costs.
You could always try asking them instead of assuming incoming doom. They may just have it in the paperwork that they comply with the 40 year rule. I would like to see them get out of a payment in court when a rider has complied with the law. Choose your insurance carefully.
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Its not a matter of them complying with the 40 year rule. A insurance company can stipulate whatever it wants in the terms and conditions for them to insure you. The choice is yours whether you agree to terms and conditions or seek another insurance company. If terms and conditions stipulate a mot and you do not have one then you have broken the contract and they will not have to pay out.
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As far as insurance companies not paying out, remember an MOT means the vehicle is safe at that time on that day, tomorrow it could break catastrophically. Insurance companies will choose to not pay out if mechanical failure can be proved the blame for an accident if the owner knew - MOT or not.
Ok some mechanical failure may cause the accident as they fail, but examples like bald tyres, ineffective brakes that clearly were ineffective for some time will be taken into account by insurers.
Having an MOT cert is no guarantee of pay out.
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Its not a matter of them complying with the 40 year rule. A insurance company can stipulate whatever it wants in the terms and conditions for them to insure you. The choice is yours whether you agree to terms and conditions or seek another insurance company. If terms and conditions stipulate a mot and you do not have one then you have broken the contract and they will not have to pay out.
That's why I say ask the insurance company. If they say they want an MOT then that is what you will have to do. How many people take out insurance and have no idea what they are buying. It's not just MOT issues there are many other things that will cause a No Payout ie. Bike stored away from the address listed without prior consent. All my garages addresses are listed on the insurance, just one example. Just a phone call.
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No it is no guarantee of payout it would depend on what else comes into play, in the event of a claim. But if they stipulate you MUST have a MOT it is just the same as if they stipulate you MUST have a alarm or whatever fitted, then that is the term of the contract. There is no getting around the word must. It would be what you are agreeing to do in the contract for insurance.
Just because HM Gov are allowing it does not mean insurance comps will have to allow it. That will be a matter for the individual insurance companies. I would suggest people ask their insurance companies what their position ion this is. At this time I would think all polices would say you MUST have a Mot to use on the road unless you are going to or from a Mot.
Does anyone know what happens already with pre 60s vehicles as far as insurance is concerned. Because the pool of vehicles that qualify is about to get much larger and will continue to do so.
In 20 years time you will be having such as Blackbirds qualifying .
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Its not a matter of them complying with the 40 year rule. A insurance company can stipulate whatever it wants in the terms and conditions for them to insure you. The choice is yours whether you agree to terms and conditions or seek another insurance company. If terms and conditions stipulate a mot and you do not have one then you have broken the contract and they will not have to pay out.
That's why I say ask the insurance company. If they say they want an MOT then that is what you will have to do. How many people take out insurance and have no idea what they are buying. It's not just MOT issues there are many other things that will cause a No Payout ie. Bike stored away from the address listed without prior consent. All my garages addresses are listed on the insurance, just one example. Just a phone call.
Then you are sensible and doing the right thing and covering your arse as far as i'm concerned.
Not everyone is though. I am sure we all know someone who has been conservative with the truth to get insurance.
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Claims assessor, says the bike was not fit for the road and should not have been there, no pay out. No legs to stand on. Don't get me wrong i like the idea of not having to MOT my bikes, but insurance is just a business, so for the sake of a few quid they will be tested.
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Claims assessor, says the bike was not fit for the road and should not have been there, no pay out. No legs to stand on. Don't get me wrong i like the idea of not having to MOT my bikes, but insurance is just a business, so for the sake of a few quid they will be tested.
Agreed. If its not fit for the road don't ride it (MOT or not). And if you want to lie to your insurer don't whine when they refuse a payout. If your in any doubt whatsoever get it MOTed. Simple really.
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But an MOT is pretty pointless really. As it only certifies that the vehicle was roadworthy at the time of the test.
Sean.
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But an MOT is pretty pointless really. As it only certifies that the vehicle was roadworthy at the time of the test.
Sean.
But at the very least it shows at some point during the year it was deemed roadworthy. Whereas it could go years unfit for the road even though the owner believes it to be ok.
Just because someone is enthusiastic about something does not mean they are capable of telling if something is right or wrong with a vehicle.
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But an MOT is pretty pointless really. As it only certifies that the vehicle was roadworthy at the time of the test.
Sean.
But at the very least it shows at some point during the year it was deemed roadworthy. Whereas it could go years unfit for the road even though the owner believes it to be ok.
Just because someone is enthusiastic about something does not mean they are capable of telling if something is right or wrong with a vehicle.
Good point. I would always get an MOT following a major rebuild, its so easy to miss something that another person looking it over is never a bad thing. I left the rear axle split pin out whilst I ordered stainless ones, then simply forgot to fit it. My bad and it was put right straight away, but it took extra eyes to spot it. Would probably have seen it myself fairly quickly but could have been too late.
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Do you think you might be more likely to get a pull by the police as the ANPR would show no Mot even if it showed exempt. Would they be more likely just to check your vehicle.
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I'm still undecided on this one. I see plenty of highly dangerous cars and bikes in my brothers garage.
More worryingly when issues are pointed out to customers they just shrug there shoulders and say it can wait till MOT day. Or even accuse the garage of fishing for work.
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What's the law on MOT's for classics at the moment? my old fella has a Sunbeam S8 and a RE Crusader Sport that he does not MOT now.
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I'm still undecided on this one. I see plenty of highly dangerous cars and bikes in my brothers garage.
More worryingly when issues are pointed out to customers they just shrug there shoulders and say it can wait till MOT day. Or even accuse the garage of fishing for work.
I believe he can hold the vehicles until repairs to make them roadworthy are done, be the repairs are done by him or another party, if the vehicles leave in a dangerous state and get involved in a serious incident it can all come back to him for letting it go back out. My old tester in Kent done this on several occasions that i know of and they didn't need the work.
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The current law is a vehicle registered before 1st Jan 1960 no longer requires an M.O.T., but from May this year any vehicle 40 years old or over will become M.O.T. exempt as well. The Government weren't happy about doing it, but E.U. legislation forced it to fall into line with the rest of the E.U.
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What's the law on MOT's for classics at the moment? my old fella has a Sunbeam S8 and a RE Crusader Sport that he does not MOT now.
At this precise moment Pre 1960 vehicles do not need an MOT, as from May this year any vehicle over 40 years of age will not need a mandatory test, but the Muppets that will ride/drive a vehicle that is deemed unfit will still be liable and garages undertaking work on such vehicles are obligated to stop these vehicles going back out on the road until made fit for purpose, but as usual our lily livered government has conformed to the Euro Nazis demands and capitulated.
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Ah, that explains it. my fathers bikes are fifties bikes.
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I will be getting my bikes MOTed even though I have rebuilt my bikes myself and have been building bikes for nearly 40 years I would never take a bike out unless it was completely roadworthy, but how many that are not roadworthy are going to be involved in accidents and gurinteed insurance companies will use that as an excuse to not pay out ,could you imagine been involved in an accident where someone was seriously hurt or worse and there was a seven figure claim against an insurance company, they ask did you have an MOT and never mind how many years you have owned been rebuilding working on bikes are you qualified to say that the bike was safe they will use anything so be warned.
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400/4 booked in for its MOT tomorrow(weather dependent) even though it will be exempt.
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400/4 booked in for its MOT tomorrow(weather dependent) even though it will be exempt.
Not until May 20th!
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400/4 booked in for its MOT tomorrow(weather dependent) even though it will be exempt.
Not until May 20th!
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
it will be exempt ;D
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Last year I got my 550F import 1st MoTd after complete rebuild. It was on frame no only so had only ridden up the road and back before taking it. By the time I got to the garage (7 miles) it was obvious the headstock hearings were loose and thought let's see what else it fails on as I'm there. AND it passed!
It's only done 300 miles since then and won't take it this year unless insurance insist.
Plenty of unroadworthy vehicles on the road with an MOT.
After a no fault accident years ago, I had to admit that my written off bike MOT had run out two months before. Insurance never asked and police noted but no action taken.
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I will still mot my bikes but a handy thing about it is if your tax needs renewal and you cant get or the waether is too crap to take your bike for a mot you can still tax it rather than having the hassle of sorning it.
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Surely we know when our bikes are fit for the road
In the 40yrs I have owned & restored bike. I have never had a failure.
If you clean & polish a bike regularly. Any potential problems are easily spotted.
As for Insurance companies insisting on MOT tests.
I can't see how they can. The law says "not required" so the Insurance companies have no legal mandate. To demand otherwise.
Sean.
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They do not need a legal mandate. It would simply be in their terms and conditions to have one, and if you want them to insure you then it is up to you to meet their terms and conditions or seek insurance elsewhere.
Enthusiasm does not mean someone can necessarily do a job. You only have to see some of the very basic questions asked on forums and that's by those who bother to ask. How many don't bother asking believing they already know the correct answer. This is not only going to apply to something as simple as a motorcycle. Ask the testers and ex testers some of the stupid things they have seen which the owners must have thought to be ok or they would have never presented the vehicles in that state in the first place.
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I have two 1970's Honda 4's on the road. On the one, the MOT expired on 12th April. The second bike has a test expiry date of 20th May and I therefore telephoned the DVLA to confirm the new situation.
I was informed that in the case of the bike with an MOT expiry date of 12th April, I could either have it tested at that time and continue to ride it (which I did) or wait until the new rules come in and use it without an MOT after that date. In the case of the bike where the MOT expires on 20th May, it could be used without an MOT under the new rules from the time that the existing MOT expires. I asked the DVLA whether I would need to fill in a form to operate it without an MOT and they said not until the next tax application is made. (Both bikes are already registered in the "Historic Vehicle" category).
I have also contacted my insurer to obtain their view. Their immediate response was that they will follow the law, and an MOT is not needed for their purposes after the new rules come into effect.
If you are affected by this and intend to operate without an MOT do please check for yourself rather than relying on my comments, your situation may be different or your insurer might take a different view of matters!
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I was told basically the same thing but to call them again once it came into practice, as they would know for sure the legal requirements.
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Two of my fathers bikes are pre 1960, the no MOT rule has applied to them for a while therefore insurers are well aware of the changes and how it affects vehicles they insure, I fail to see why it would make any difference now the date is being altered.
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Simply because there will be a large sudden increase in the number of vehicles that will not legally require a Mot and will continue to increase every year.
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It's a fairly academic change really, the owner is still responsible for ensuring the vehicle is road legal every trip they take. Insurance assessors will still have the tyre tread gauge in hand as they get out of the vehicle.
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Simply because there will be a large sudden increase in the number of vehicles that will not legally require a Mot and will continue to increase every year.
But that happened when the pre 1960 no MOT rule came into force, probably even more vehicles than now, and there was no issue from insurers then. In fact when the 1960 rule came about it was a new thing, now its just a date change so old hat to insurers.
And as said before, an MOT only lasts for the moment its MOT'd, driving/riding home from the test something could break making the vehicle unsafe. Insurers know this.
Don't get me wrong, I've worked in MOTing and have seen some of the vehicles presented which makes me worry that these vehicles will now be used unchecked. But I don't think the insurance people will make an issue of the new no MOT date, the same as they didn't when it first came into force.
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I hope your right. Only time will tell.
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just had a reminder for my RD,its historice and need me to make a payment of £0.00 before june.
BUT,it still claims it will need an MOT,maybe I will wait till after 20th May before I pay my £0.00
and see if it becomes MOT exempt !!!
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just had a reminder for my RD,its historice and need me to make a payment of £0.00 before june.
BUT,it still claims it will need an MOT,maybe I will wait till after 20th May before I pay my £0.00
and see if it becomes MOT exempt !!!
I like an optimist - do you think our beloved Gov is that organised
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Just renewed my insurance though Carol Nash and that included breakdown assistance. The first line of Restrictions of cover states the vehicle must be UK registered with a current MOT. One might expect there to be perhaps in brackets if applicable but there isn't.
So on the face of it it seems that no MOT no breakdown assistance. Before I get on the phone for clarification I wonder if anyone else has noticed this.
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just an update,
I contacted the DVLA.asking the question,
and guess what,I got an answer,
which I copy and paste.
I let you draw you conclusions over the answer
Thank you for your enquiry received on 9/5/2018.
Your case reference number is 00600641.
We appreciate that you have taken the time to contact us in relation to this matter.?
With regards to MOT enquiries, please contact;
Driver & Vehicle Standards Agency
Ellipse
Padley Road
Swansea
SA1 8AN
Telephone number: 0300 123 9000
Website: https://www.gov.uk
email: https://www.gov.uk/contact-dvsa
I hope this information is of assistance to you.
Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our reply form link or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser:
https://live.email-dvla.service.gov.uk/w2c/en_GB/forms/Response?token=b39eb94cbbf47b005d1a8b0a6c7429d6
Best Regards
R Roach
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DVLA are a bunch of Muppets! >:(
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I have rung the DVLA this morning to enquire about the new MOT's for vehicles over 40 years old.
They have confirmed that it runs live from 20th May, so from that date provided you have insurance you will be able to apply for tax and you will not need to have a current MOT.
If, like me, you have some already insured and taxed but the MOT's have elapsed you need to do nothing but simply use them from that date.
They were not able to advise what the specific procedure is/will be if you are taxing the vehicle on or after the 20th May so I guess we will all find out on that day but if you already have current insurance and tax but no MOT from the 20th May you will not need it.
Have also checked with my Insurance Company, RH, and they have confirmed that a vehicle will need to be roadworthy but will no longer require a MOT certificate for insurance or any breakdown cover.
Andy
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I’ve recently finished tidying up my Ex USA very early 400/4. Engine in bits, cam chain, carb kits and some cosmetic stuff like replating spokes and numerous nuts and bolts. I last used it regularly in 2015 and still might eventually take it for mot but convenience might dictate that I tax it from 20th and then take it for test when it’s more convenient.
Bizarre situation where this has been planned for a long time but no update on V112 form as yet and it comes into force on a Sunday! Hope the system doesn’t fall over with the volume of attempts. Some of DVLA’s ONLINE services are only available during restricted hours and days - you couldn’t make this stuff up could you?
Ian