Side stand

[AndyD]

Here's another puzzle I'm hoping to solve...
The side stand fits and pivots fine but holds the bike pretty well vertically with no lean at all.
Nothing looks bent so I wondered if this is the correct stand for the 400 or something that's been swapped previously.
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The stand is also quite a loose fitting onto the frame bracket and seems to have a spigot for second spring which made me think it could be the wrong one maybe?

Cheers,
Andy

[Johnny4428]

Something sprung to my mind which is proper wheel diameter and stock rear shocks/front forks, things that could possibly effect the overall frame to ground clearance.

[Laverda Dave]

Is there any evidence of repairs to the lower frame tube either side of the pivot point Andy? 400/4 frames are known to rot out in this area, I think a couple of members on here have discovered issues such as this on their rebuilds.
The side stand appears to be stock although I don't know if the part number is the same for several models, you could try putting the part number into the DSS website and see what comes up.

[AndyD]

Thanks guys,
Johnny - The wheel is correct and it seems the shocks are a bit longer than standard which I guess would increase the lean rather than reduce it.

Dave - I think you may well be right about the repair. It's hard to tell as the frame had been powder coated by the PO and looks pretty good but if I look closely there are some wrinkles in the frame tube around the stand bracket so I guess it could have been repaired at some point.

Not really sure what to do with this bike as there are just so many niggles at every step. Essentially I think it was just not a great basis for restoration due to the number of non-standard or damaged / bodged bits. It also makes me a bit nervous that the powder coating may hide other repairs with no idea if they were done properly.

I enjoyed getting the engine together and running well but I'm not sure I want to put much more into this bike from here so I'll have to decide whether to carry on, stick her back in the shed, or sell / part out.

Cheers,
Andy

[Deano400]

Hi Andy,

I have a similar problem with one of my frames. The side stand mounting had clearly been welded up at some point. There was plenty of excess weld so I decided to grind some off. Grinding off revealed some poor welding that was just built up until the mounting was solid. Underneath it all there was no frame tube left.

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I've checked a good frame I have and the angle of the side stand mounting is about 35deg.

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The mounting on the bad frame is about 45deg.
I'll have to have part of the frame tube replaced and the mounting welded back on.
It would be good if someone else can confirm the angle before I have it done.

John

[Laverda Dave]

Andy, If the worst happens and you find the frame has rotted out in the sidestand area there is a guy called Howard at Hybrid Motorcycles located between Croxley Green and Sarrat in Hertfordshire. He is an excellent welder (he worked in aviation) and undertakes frame straightening. I take my frames to him for alignment checking before doing any restoration work. He welded my Morini 350 rear frame loop after I found a nasty crack in it. His workshop is very old fashioned but the quality of his work is excellent.

[AndyD]

Thanks again,
John - I think it may well be the same here as everything looks OK but the lean angle is way off and I'd guess it's had the bracket welded on incorrectly as you noted.
My concern is whether there are any more hidden bodges under the powder coating!

For the moment I've wheeled her to the back of the garage while I decide which way to go.

Dave - that's a really handy contact thanks. That's only a few miles from where I live and I'm sure they'll be useful for a few things besides the 400. I've got a CX500 turbo with a broken side stand bracket which I think can be welded but I really don't want to risk it being done badly and this guy sounds ideal (and local).

I'll mull over the 400 for a while and crack on with some other projects in the meantime. Been trying to sort out all the bikes and bits in the garage / sheds and make some sort of plan of which ones to do but indecision wins every time!

Cheers,
Andy

[AndyD]

Back again,
Had a bit of time to look closer at the stand issue.
Shocks are over-length but this would make the lean angle better - I did swap them with a correct length, rusty, set and the bike was vertical.
I can't really make out whether the area has been welded up - the frame was powder coated when I got it and it's not really clear to me if original or bodged - maybe someone can tell from the attached photos?
I also wondered if the stand is the right one - it has a spigot on both sides of the stand as shown and maybe is simply too long? Dimension from bolt centre to heel of the stand is around 21cm as photo.
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Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Andy

[Deano400]

This is a picture of my brother's which we believe is original.
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[taysidedragon]

The stand length is the same as mine which sits the bike at the right angle.
The angles out and forward look very similar by eye, difficult to be sure without measuring angles accurately.
If you're able to compare your bike with another one side by side you should see any difference straight away.

I guess it's removed while you're sorting the stand problem,  but there should be a locknut on the pivot bolt behind the stand bracket. 👍

[AndyD]

Thanks
Deano - looks like the double spigot is standard then. From your photo the weld for the stand bracket looks to be more on the underside of the frame tube than on my one so maybe that is where a repair has been done.
Tayside - yes, nut left off as I've been playing with the stand. Haven't got a second bike to compare to sadly.
Might have to bite the bullet and take some of the paint off to see if the area's been welded up and then decide.
Cheers,
Andy

[taysidedragon]

Andy, anybody else on the forum live near you who could bring their bike round? I would, but NE Scotland is a bit far!

[AndyD]

Thanks Gareth
Agree it would be a bit of a trek - but down hill all the way here at least!
Had a friend at school who couldn't be convinced that north-south was different to up-down and firmly believed it would use far less petrol going south rather than north - bless!
Cheers,
Andy

[taysidedragon]

Thanks Gareth
Agree it would be a bit of a trek - but down hill all the way here at least!
Had a friend at school who couldn't be convinced that north-south was different to up-down and firmly believed it would use far less petrol going south rather than north - bless!
Cheers,
Andy

Brilliant! He's probably a politician now.🤪

[taysidedragon]

Just a thought, are the wheels and tyres standard sizes?
Front fork springs correct length and stanchions positioned correctly in the yokes?