400/4 Wheel bearing questions ?

[Bryanj]

Basically what you are doing is when you tighten the axle nut you lock all the bits on the axle into a solid lump and the wheel bearings complete with wheel rotates round it

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Basically what you are doing is when you tighten the axle nut you lock all the bits on the axle into a solid lump and the wheel bearings complete with wheel rotates round it

The bit that makes my head spin is you want to avoid side load on the bearings - so at one end is a slightly smaller bearing that you fit up to the shoulder then a spacer that sits in the middle of the hub then another spacer that fits into the larger bearing that is locked in by the ring. On the chains side there is a wheel spacer that fixes the position of the rear drive wheel in relation to the engine output gear. On the other side a spacer fits between the rear fork and the bearing that sits against the shoulder. As you tighten the axle nut it all clamps up the smaller bearing can't move as it's up against the shoulder - in my head that means the spacer between the bearings is what fixes/prevents any side load.

[Bryanj]

Thats right Ted

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I had a burst of enthusiasm coincided with energy so this morning I fitted the larger rear wheel bearing & spacers- all went okay except that I am not happy with the condition of the lock ring threads (I should have ordered one before I knew it was not great) Ordered  new ring together with some various odds & sods that I needed - got to help DS stay in business.lol

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I like those rims Ted. Let’s see it all together. Could be a really tasteful package…..

I think the only person who will think it's a tasteful package will be me - everyone else will stare at it as if its some sort of Honda birth defect gone bling from a factory in Wuhan.

The whole will end up being much less than the sum of it's parts but it will tick the box in my demented septuagenarian brain.

[Sesman]

Its yours, so it’s beautiful and don’t let anybody say otherwise. Keep at it please.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

My DS lock ring arrived today but it will only screw in by hand about a third of a turn - I gave it another turn with my tool but stopped as it was just too tight.
I had previously cleaned out the threads in the hub that are good - plus applied some lubricant.

Good news is the old one will screw in about 4/5 turns easily by hand so thread is good - I've contacted DS waiting for response.

At a push I could use the old lock ring as its the very top thread that has a bit missing - anyone here had issues with them - it came  in a Honda parts bag

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

They are meant to be tight Ted, otherwise they may work loose. I believe they crush slightly as they go in, which is why the old one fits easier. You really need the special tool to get it in without chewing up the notches.

Thanks I have the special tool - is there a torque setting as I haven't spotted one?

I did notice that the new lock ring has what I would describe as peaked threads whereas on the old lock ring they seemed flat somehow. I know that the manual says peen them over in four place with a punch mark  but would locktite be as good or an added extra?

[Bryanj]

Wouldnt use locktite, you may want to remove it in the future

[K2-K6]

Put the ring in the freezer overnight and the wheel in the airing cupboard (making sure the airing cupboard inspector doesn't find it  ) then try it after that.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I think I have identified the cause of my issue with the new lock ring - the old lock ring has four punch marks that look as though they were done during manufacture to lock it against the hub. The lock ring was removed by the wheel builders - it looks as if they have just undone it by force without drilling out the lock points  so the old lock ring fits fine but the new lock ring is causing an issue on the hub where the corresponding lock points were. Then as Ken points out they are meant to be tight.

I still haven't found a Torque Setting for the lock rings only for the axle nut.

[Bryanj]

Dont think there is one apart from BT mate, use a thread file to clean the threads in the hub

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Dont think there is one apart from BT mate, use a thread file to clean the threads in the hub

A thread file - I've not got one of those - any pointers please asside from a metric one  do they come in pitch sizes?

I went to have another look at the rear wheel hub but came back inside after a few minutes it's turned cold here - I could feel my dam Angina starting to trip in so am back indoors.

[Laverdaroo]

Thats a bit crap Ted, get a brew in you and get warmed up.  This is just an example, there are hundreds on there. Dead easy to use.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233397431681?epid=26017006706&hash=item3657922d81:g:tFcAAOSw7gpdyBrj

[K2-K6]

As far as I understand it there's no torque setting for the lock ring as it doesn't generate tensile or compressive load in itself.

As you find too,  the torque to turn it can be variable once the wheel has been used, making absolute reference unreliable.

Essentially it needs the "staking" because it's not torqued,  just positional accuracy. 

If you drive the bearings in fully,  then assemble the wheel/spacers/brake fully into the swing arm, then torque the spindle fully the wheel should not alter rotation resistance when you do. This will give confirmation that the whole assembly is correctly installed.
Further,  if this did result in seating the main bearing slightly further in, then it is this final position that the retainer needs to tighten against to give competent rear wheel datum/alignment.
Si you can then fit the retainer correctly and secure it.