SOHC.co.uk Forums > CB500/550
CMS selling pattern parts as genuine
Skoti:
I once ordered four genuine needle jets kits from CMS, two came in sealed Honda bags and two were supplied in zip lock bags which were not genuine as could be seen by comparison.
Anyhow I complained and was told that they were repackaged because the original bags were damaged.
Aye right...
Oddjob:
--- Quote from: AshimotoK0 on January 10, 2024, 10:00:46 PM ---I don't think you will go wrong with genuine Riken rings Ken. Same with ART pistons. Not sure that Cruzin are the same quality as the genuine Riken items. Having said this, Yamiya sell 750 Riken rings a way lot cheaper than CMS and don't badge them as Honda. I just wish Yamiya would start selling 500/550 parts.
--- End quote ---
Mike Nixon doesn't rate Cruzinimage rings at all, reckons they are almost out of spec within less than 10K miles and that was with a really tight bore done. Reckons they are really soft metal in comparison to the Honda rings.
I wish Yamiya would as well Ash.
AshimotoK0:
--- Quote from: Oddjob on January 11, 2024, 07:51:17 AM ---
--- Quote from: AshimotoK0 on January 10, 2024, 10:00:46 PM ---
--- End quote ---
Mike Nixon doesn't rate Cruzinimage rings at all, reckons they are almost out of spec within less than 10K miles and that was with a really tight bore done. Reckons they are really soft metal in comparison to the Honda rings.
I wish Yamiya would as well Ash.
--- End quote ---
That's interesting Ken. Where did you read that .. was it from the USA site? Just glad now that I have always stuck to my guns and used Genuine or Riken branded rings. I did see somewhere that the problem was more related to big bore kits they sell , but who knows. I am not sure what IMD sell either. I currently need a STD piston for my CB250RSA single. I got the genuine rings and NOS are pretty thin on the ground, IMD sell their own brand ones but I need to use with NOS barrels, so a bit wary about using an aftermarket piston that has not been matched to a rebore.
K2-K6:
--- Quote from: Oddjob on January 11, 2024, 07:51:17 AM ---
--- Quote from: AshimotoK0 on January 10, 2024, 10:00:46 PM ---I don't think you will go wrong with genuine Riken rings Ken. Same with ART pistons. Not sure that Cruzin are the same quality as the genuine Riken items. Having said this, Yamiya sell 750 Riken rings a way lot cheaper than CMS and don't badge them as Honda. I just wish Yamiya would start selling 500/550 parts.
--- End quote ---
Mike Nixon doesn't rate Cruzinimage rings at all, reckons they are almost out of spec within less than 10K miles and that was with a really tight bore done. Reckons they are really soft metal in comparison to the Honda rings.
I wish Yamiya would as well Ash.
--- End quote ---
Thats a bit of an odd one, and would need more comprehensive detail to understand if true or not.
A ring's life will ordinarily encounter most of its wear at first stages of use, correct hone and tolerance will see the most amount of metal removed in these initial miles run. As the honed edges come off the bore surface that should reduce very significantly, ultimately to nothing significant over the rest of it's life. It's the byproduct of this that gives reason to change the oil at short interval after "running in" then move to normal planned service schedule.
It would need more clear comparison of the wear characteristic with a "genuine" product over exactly the same set of conditions to validate. Rings are less likely to be inspected at intervals to see that wear in reality, without which it's not of qualified definition.
If any ring wear in service is high the first suspect is mixture, too rich will seriously impact oil film that supports good bore /ring lubrication. Presumably that was accounted for in the assessment. Short runs, typical use profile etc.
Rings aren't particularly "hard" generally as they need to wear by honing action in providing a competent seal. You'd expect to see at least some measure by comparison to make that statement, Rockwell hardness testing, or similar.
You'd expect to find the most wear on rings within a 5000 most from new range in typical materials engineering from this period. Unless there's other empirical records that can comprehensively back it up, I'd be suspicious of that general view and especially from small sample.
Oddjob:
I think Nigel he is going off experience with using Cruzinimage rings rather than testing hardness in a lab, it's my experience though that the cheaper the product the more likely it is to be inferior to the dearer product. I read in one of Mikes posts about him removing a piston after just 5k miles and finding they'd worn considerably, on a bore that he'd done to Hondas specs, as in really really tight. As you say though it's a difficult thing to say what caused that wear, however it should be easy enough to test as ring wear should show in the compression readings, test after fitting, test again after say 3k and then do periodic tests to see how the figures compare.
As the old saying goes, you tend to get what you pay for and Cruzinimage do seem suspiciously cheaper in comparison to other brands.
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