To do or not to do?

[Otis]

Moving on from my starting woes I had taken the view that if the bike could be kick started fairly easily I would live with that but the electric start is such a nice feature I'm really struggling to know what to do.

The starter clutch has gone. Being my first bike after a 40 year layoff I bought with my heart and not my head. I paid absolute top whack for the bike because it was in beautiful condition and even though the previous owner informed me that starting can be a bit fluffy he clearly knew there was a problem and I didn't have sufficient knowledge to pick up on it. It has left a bad taste and needless to say we are no longer talking.

As most of you will know the replacement of a starter clutch on the 350 four is an engine out job and not one to be taken on lightly. With enough time I could probably tackle it myself but that's not what I got back into biking for and the thought of it is depressing. I guess a shop would charge circa £1K if i'm lucky.

What do you guys think? Is it worth doing or not?

Cheers

[florence]

When I rebuilt my 500/4 in 1995 I didn't wire up the starter motor and thought I would do it at a later stage.  31 years later and I still haven't got round to it.  It's so easy to kick over, I have never needed it.

[Johnwebley]

Hey, it's still a great bike

Use the Kicker,

Enjoy

I have the starter clutch go on my 500,

My mate did it in the frame

No were near that cost

Maybe someone knows if the smaller bike can be done like that

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[Otis]

That's a nice story. May I please ask if you also had a starter clutch problem or did you just decide to always go with the kickstart option? Did you remove all of the starter components to reduce weight as well?

[Yetanotherbike]

Out of interest, when you say the starter clutch has gone, I assume you mean it sounds like the starter motor is whizzing over but the engine isn't. In my opinion there isn't very much to go wrong with the starter clutch it's only a sprag bearing. I wonder if the oil is the wrong grade IE too heavy and the rollers are slipping. Either way, why not enjoy the summer with the bike and worry about it next winter. They're not a particulary difficult engine to remove or rebuild and it also gives you a change to check the cam chain tensioner stirrup that often seizes.

[Otis]

Out of interest, when you say the starter clutch has gone, I assume you mean it sounds like the starter motor is whizzing over but the engine isn't. In my opinion there isn't very much to go wrong with the starter clutch it's only a sprag bearing. I wonder if the oil is the wrong grade IE too heavy and the wedges are slipping. Either way, why not enjoy the summer with the bike and worry about it next winter. They're not a particulary difficult engine to remove or rebuild and it also gives you a change to check the cam chain tensioner stirrup that often seizes.

In fairness I am guessing that the starter clutch has gone. My friend has the same bike and we have swapped starter motors etc. My starter works perfectly in his bike but his just spins out in my bike.

Isn't the oil the same for everything? I have only ever used the recommended grade of oil.

I agree that the starter clutch is a simple mechanism but getting at it is the real problem on the 350 four.

[Johnwebley]

That's a nice story. May I please ask if you also had a starter clutch problem or did you just decide to always go with the kickstart option? Did you remove all of the starter components to reduce weight as well?

No,

I diagnosed the sprag clutch was faulty,

Got a complete s/h from ebay,

I now know spares are available,

Kick started and took to my friend,

He is a professional bike engineer with his own business,

Job done

Check dear Mr Silver for rollers and springs



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[Bryanj]

I know its a long way but if you got the engine to gloucester for 8am on a saturday i am free you could probably take it home in the evening, that would be just changing the starter clutch with nothing else, trouble is you frequently find problems with cam change tensioner and that adds time plus if you havent got the necessary bits a wait for parts, pm me if you want to discuss it

[Otis]

I have some good friends in Wooton under Edge. Is that anywhere near you?

[Johnwebley]

I have some good friends in Wooton under Edge. Is that anywhere near you?

Not to far away

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[K2-K6]

A quick reality check .... if you can jump it with leads off a car, then that would give overview of battery health. If it started that way, with the spray biting well, that could indicate a battery condition problem.

Sprags "like" and work better with a quick build of energy to make them bite, lethargic battery can be problematic if it just give a gentle shove.

[Bryanj]

According to mr google about 20 miles and 35 minutes(mostly back roads!) I am about 2 miles from junction 12 of m5

[Otis]

Out of interest, when you say the starter clutch has gone, I assume you mean it sounds like the starter motor is whizzing over but the engine isn't. In my opinion there isn't very much to go wrong with the starter clutch it's only a sprag bearing. I wonder if the oil is the wrong grade IE too heavy and the rollers are slipping. Either way, why not enjoy the summer with the bike and worry about it next winter. They're not a particulary difficult engine to remove or rebuild and it also gives you a change to check the cam chain tensioner stirrup that often seizes.

Much appreciated proposal. Thank you

[Otis]

I know its a long way but if you got the engine to gloucester for 8am on a saturday i am free you could probably take it home in the evening, that would be just changing the starter clutch with nothing else, trouble is you frequently find problems with cam change tensioner and that adds time plus if you havent got the necessary bits a wait for parts, pm me if you want to discuss it

Please forgive me for probably being naive but isn't the difficult part getting the engine out and back in? Once the engine is out it would seem to be a fairly straightforward job to rebuild the starter clutch?

[Laverda Dave]

I would rather take an engine out of a frame then to do a starter clutch!
Getting the engine out (and back) on a 400/4 is pretty straightforward.
Remove the seat, side panels and tank together with the handlebars, rear brake pedal and footrest assembly, battery and the complete exhaust system (in fact anything sticking out of the right hand side but not the rear shock). Take off the chrome points cover because it will likely get dented and remove any wiring loom connectors to the engine (alternator, starter motor & points)
Remove the rear engine to frame bracket (it has the main earth lead attached to the through bolt) and the engine to frame bolt at the front of the engine on the r/h side and on the lower crankcase. Remove the sump pan and take off the oil pick up strainer (push on fit) and lay the bike over on its right hand side preferably onto something soft with a bit of give. Proceed to remove the front engine to frame brackets and the left side lower crankcase to frame bolt. You can then lift the frame off the engine that will remain on the floor.
Replacement in the words of Mr Haynes is a reversal of the removal procedure!
It sounds like a lot of work but in reality it isn't but I would recommend enlisting a helper when it comes to laying the bike down and lifting the frame away from the engine.
You can access the starter clutch from below if you take the sump and off side covers off and without removing the engine from the frame but it is very hard work trying to work below an engine even on a bike lift.