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CB350/400
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Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
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Topic: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark (Read 7758 times)
Lynx
Repair & Despair Under One Roof
SOHC Expert
Posts: 401
Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
on:
April 14, 2014, 02:44:01 PM »
The bike had been running fine. I'd taken it for a few test spins around the block. Booked MOT for a couple of Saturdays ago, went to ride it there and it would only start on two cylinders!
. Since, I've found a faulty plug cap but it's made no difference and I've fitted a new ignition coil, points and condensers and cleaned out the carbs (again!) and it still isn't running right on 1 and 4. Do the generator windings, regulator or rectifier have ant effect on the spark? I did change them recently for some which seemed to charge the battery better. Also could any of the wiring in the headlight effect this? I did have to remove the headlight to refit the parking bulb, as it had fallen out, the evening before. I have looked in there since but looks OK.
Another thing I just remembered. The points for cylinders 2&3 are sparking quite a lot, whereas I cannot see any sparking on the points for 1&4.
Cheers guys in advance.
Logged
Yamaha RD500LC
Triumph Speed Triple RS.
Previous bikes include
1976 Honda CB400F Now sold :-(
CB350K3 x2
CB250G5
CX500C
VF500F2
VF1000FE
Lobo
Lobo
SOHC Master
Posts: 1551
Lobo
Re: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
Reply #1 on:
April 14, 2014, 03:57:25 PM »
Assuming your bike original wiring spec, and going from memory etc as not near my 400F right now. The 'flow of electricity'...
(1) Battery +ve to ignition switch (Red)
(2) Ignition switch to kill switch (Black) ... and connector likely in the boot under the tank LHS.
(3) Kill switch to coils (a single black / white), and again, not in the headlamp if I recall.
(4) Here the black/white splits to feed the two coils.
(5) Blue from (L) coil down to points, through these & to earth, sparking Cylinders 1/4
(6) Yellow from (R) coil down to points, through these & to earth, sparking cylinders 2/3
Check..
(A) Note 4 above, ie the (L) coil has a good connection to the black / white from the kill switch
(B) The Blue lead out from the (L) coil has continuity all the way down to its set of points... I can't remember where the bullet connector is....
(C) The points (blue set) are correctly assembled... ie insulators / connections as the 'yellow' set.
(D) the points base clean / well earthed to the back plate.
Charging circuit doesn't differentiate between the coils... not a problem here methinks.
Lack of sparking at points does rather suggest a break in notes 4 or 5 perhaps.
. er, good luck.
Simon
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Bryanj
Grogu
Posts: 12559
Re: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
Reply #2 on:
April 14, 2014, 05:14:32 PM »
Check the big rubber boot by the brake pedal where the brake light wires go as the points wires connect there and frequently disconnect with moving about
Logged
tom400f
SOHC Pro
Posts: 743
Re: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
Reply #3 on:
April 14, 2014, 09:06:07 PM »
Very simple check - with the points set 1/4 open can you read 12 volts across them? If no meter then use a low wattage bulb.
Logged
1978 CB400F2 Yellow
1997 VFR750FV Lapis Blue
2010 VFR800 A9 Silver
2013 Yamaha FZ8 Grey (Son's)
Lynx
Repair & Despair Under One Roof
SOHC Expert
Posts: 401
Re: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
Reply #4 on:
April 15, 2014, 03:04:10 PM »
Thanks for the tips. I'll have a go at it tonight and let you know how I get on. I am suspecting the contact beakers themselves at the moment.
Logged
Yamaha RD500LC
Triumph Speed Triple RS.
Previous bikes include
1976 Honda CB400F Now sold :-(
CB350K3 x2
CB250G5
CX500C
VF500F2
VF1000FE
Lynx
Repair & Despair Under One Roof
SOHC Expert
Posts: 401
An Update
«
Reply #5 on:
April 16, 2014, 09:05:39 AM »
So. I spent the evening in the man cave determined to get to the bottom of this and fix it. Not so
. It seems I need to divert my attention to the carbs again! Basically I swapped over all the ignition components but the fault remained on cylinders 1 and 4.
There is still something a bit funny going on with the electrics but I don't think it is the root of the problem now. I can set up the ignition timing spot on, static with a multimeter. Then when I check it with the engine running and a strobe, the marks for 2&3 are still spot on, but the marks for 1&4 are way off
. The other thing I noticed was even though the battery is reading at 12 volts, I only have 10 volts at the contact breakers. And still the right set are sparking away madly but the left set have no spark.
So with the bike idling, the engine is knocking like a bastard. Like the carbs are way out or not running on all cylinders. You can hear it cut in now and again intermittently, but if you try to rev up, it is definitely just on 2 cylinders and doesn't want to rev.
I didn't get the carbs off last night but maybe tonight. Those of you who have read my old posts may remember I had a problem with pot 2 when I first got get running. This turned out to be a missing brass ball blocking one of the manufacturing holes. I now wonder if it the same of 1 and 4. I couldn't see with the barbs on the bike but removing or screwing in the pilot air screws made no difference to the running.
Logged
Yamaha RD500LC
Triumph Speed Triple RS.
Previous bikes include
1976 Honda CB400F Now sold :-(
CB350K3 x2
CB250G5
CX500C
VF500F2
VF1000FE
LesterPiglet
SOHC Pro
Posts: 986
1977 CB550F2
Re: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
Reply #6 on:
April 16, 2014, 11:25:12 AM »
After reading your last post I have no idea why you are thinking carbs. All those electrical anomalies are not due to carbs. Why aren't 1/4 points sparking? Why is your timing off?
Off course it's going to knock firing on only two pots.
Logged
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Set/sit. Bought/brought FFS. Bloody Americans.
Les Ross. Certified by a Professional
Lynx
Repair & Despair Under One Roof
SOHC Expert
Posts: 401
Re: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
Reply #7 on:
April 16, 2014, 03:27:54 PM »
Lester you are right. I was thinking I had swapped over everything ignition. Actally I have not swapped over the contact breakers
! They are pattern parts. Diachi or what ever it is. I though that was a good make. Anyway I'll try some replacements tonight. I think I have some old genuines breakers and condensers still. Hope regenerated
!
I've entered the bike in my local vintage show 17-18th May. The organisers insist of all vehicles being road legal. So I need to get it on the road by then.
Logged
Yamaha RD500LC
Triumph Speed Triple RS.
Previous bikes include
1976 Honda CB400F Now sold :-(
CB350K3 x2
CB250G5
CX500C
VF500F2
VF1000FE
Lynx
Repair & Despair Under One Roof
SOHC Expert
Posts: 401
Re: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
Reply #8 on:
April 17, 2014, 04:08:43 PM »
She runs again
! The reason there was a problem with the ignition on pots 1&4 was the condenser on the breakers for pots 2&3 was faulty, obviously. There is something very strange going on with my bike. I can set up the ignition timing statically fine. Contact made on the left set of points on the F mark for 1-4, contact made on the right set of points on the F mark for 2-3. And the bike runs fine. Now if I check it with the engine running and a strobe light, the left points are controlling the ignition for 2&3 and the right set control 1&4. Sound like I have the yellow and blue leads the wrong way round. But if I swap them over, the bike will not run, just backfires occasionally. So the ignition timing is obviously way out.
What is going on?
Logged
Yamaha RD500LC
Triumph Speed Triple RS.
Previous bikes include
1976 Honda CB400F Now sold :-(
CB350K3 x2
CB250G5
CX500C
VF500F2
VF1000FE
LesterPiglet
SOHC Pro
Posts: 986
1977 CB550F2
Re: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
Reply #9 on:
April 17, 2014, 04:52:26 PM »
You need to reverse the yellow/blue wires and also the HT leads. 2/3 to 1/4 and vice versa.
Logged
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Set/sit. Bought/brought FFS. Bloody Americans.
Les Ross. Certified by a Professional
Lynx
Repair & Despair Under One Roof
SOHC Expert
Posts: 401
Re: Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark
«
Reply #10 on:
April 17, 2014, 08:50:46 PM »
Well I thought I had
. Lester your a star. Sorted. Thanks. Shame the HT leads are cut to match the wrong cylinders.
Logged
Yamaha RD500LC
Triumph Speed Triple RS.
Previous bikes include
1976 Honda CB400F Now sold :-(
CB350K3 x2
CB250G5
CX500C
VF500F2
VF1000FE
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Pots 1&4 Intermitant Spark