Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: Maax1200 on June 18, 2021, 07:14:53 PM
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Hi.
First time forum post here and i am looking for some help.
I am about to finish a restoration of a 500 four -74 and have run into some problems.
I have installed a new main wire harness and was wondering what the cable in the photo is? Doesnt seem to have anything to do with egnition coils.
This wire wasnt connected to anything on the old wire harness when i bought the bike so i have no clue what it is.
Second problem i have is that the bike started for the first time just a few days ago and all looked and sounded fine. After that i was diving in to my third problem witch is tha the turn signals refuse to work, no static light no blinking, nothing. After i failed to fix that issue the bike would not start, no spark. Seems like iv checked just about everything and im running out of ideas. Previous owner installesd elecronic egnition but like i said, the bike worked just fine the other day.
Is it possible to mess up the egnition coils when fiddling about with the turn signal loom and relay? No fuse has blown or anything.
Thank you for any input.
/Magnus
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PCZ9QbDvCWdm4k6Y7 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/PCZ9QbDvCWdm4k6Y7)
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Cant see any pic, put as attachment not link, sounds like you may have accidentaly disconnected a wire or turned the kill switch off
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Have you checked the power connection to the electronic ignition mine is powered from the stop lamp I think.
A new loom will not have that connection it's one you make when converting to electronic ignition.
Have you knocked the engine stop switch?
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Will check if any wires have come loose.
The electronic ignition is wired so that the kill switch still works. Well, at least it did the other day. Have tried to bypass the kill switch by connecting it straight to a ignition on wire (like the mentioned stop lamp)
No luck so far.
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Where the black (female) cable is hanging free in your photo to the left it looks as though there is a black cable with a white trace connected to plain black with a free male black cable with a white trace hanging spare if you get my drift?
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You would have had to raffle about in the “birds nest†of wire connections in the headlight whilst trying to sort out your indicators, maybe disturbed kill switch connections? Bit bewildering sometimes. With ignition on and kill switch on is there power at coils/electronic ignition? Good luck!
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Where the black (female) cable is hanging free in your photo to the left it looks as though there is a black cable with a white trace connected to plain black with a free male black cable with a white trace hanging spare if you get my drift?
Sorry, my fault. I just messed around with those wires when i took the photo. The black ignition wire (braided black) is connected to the 2 black/white ones from the coils to make the kill switch work. Iv tried connecting it strait to a black wire but still no go.
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You would have had to raffle about in the “birds nest†of wire connections in the headlight whilst trying to sort out your indicators, maybe disturbed kill switch connections? Bit bewildering sometimes. With ignition on and kill switch on is there power at coils/electronic ignition? Good luck!
I havent got the tools to check that. Looks like i may have to get it.
I'll keep checking for faulty/loose connections. Im just afraid that something bad happend with the coils.
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Btw, no take on what the lose black wire on the original picture is for?
Regarding the kill switch, as far as i can tell, that is bypassed if the ignition wire is connected straight to a power on black wire. Is that correct?
/Magnus
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Btw, no take on what the lose black wire on the original picture is for?
Magnus, can you be a bit more specific about your model bike (area code). It's not unusual to find a 'blind' black wire on the CB500. Mine has one too. This has to do with differences in wiring scheme in various markets, like the arrangement for the horn. Where have you bought your new wiring harnass? Do you have the correct wiring diagram for your model?
Best way to identify your model is to compare the engine- and framenumber of yours with those listed in the first 4 pages of the various parts lists. They are all here: http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb500
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yes the spare black wire is normal, sometimes used as a horn feed as Deltarider says in some markets.
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Thx for the link.
Seems the engine and frame is K2?
Engine: CB500E - 2152850
Frame: CB500 2064103
The new main harness is a copy of the original harness that came with the bike. Iv checked and the black wire is present on the old harness to. Looking back it feels like i cant even be sure the old harness is the correct one for the bike. When i bought it it was just half complete and ALOT of parts was missing. Whos to say he didnt replaced the harness from another bike at some point (i doubt it though). Need to point out that it is not possible to ask the last owner since he sadly passed away.
In all honesty, i cant swear the new harness is the correct one but it looks like it and maby im just starting to get paranoid :).
One thing this bike tought me is that next time around i will stay clear of any project not 100% complete. A new handlebar is fine but most other stuff is a pain in the a** to find. Especially when it has to be Year/model specific. The more i look into it it seems the bike is a miss mash of K1 and K2. Partly because of the parts i was able to find (like the fuel tank that is from a K1)
On the positive side, i did have it working the other day so thats allways something. If i get it running again i will hold of with the turn signals until after first test run on the road.
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yes the spare black wire is normal, sometimes used as a horn feed as Deltarider says in some markets.
Ok, thank you. One less thing in the equation is allways good.
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If your model has only one fuse and two grease nipples for the swingarm (one on each side), I'd say yours is a K1, as sold in Europe. At the end of the Owner's Manual there are 4 different wire diagrams. For you that is probably the -ED type. Unless your bike has been imported from elsewhere. http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_libretti/500/CB500_k1/CB500_K1_4.pdf
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Yes, if it's a bike that was registered in UK new, it is a K1. All K2s are imports (USA usually). The numbering system on SOHC4.net is for US models.
Post a pic.
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If your model has only one fuse and two grease nipples for the swingarm (one on each side), I'd say yours is a K1, as sold in Europe. At the end of the Owner's Manual there are 4 different wire diagrams. For you that is probably the -ED type. Unless your bike has been imported from elsewhere. http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_libretti/500/CB500_k1/CB500_K1_4.pdf
The bike only has 1 fuse. There was no original swing on it since the former owner rebuild it as a mucle machine, square swing arm, fibre glass body and all that. Iv hade to find, more it less, half a cb500 on the internet (never again). I live in Sweden and the bike was registred in traffic in 1974. No private import or anything.
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Thank you for all replys. I will follow all advise and report back on progress.
Might take a few days since we have the hottest days of the year here in Sweden (+30C) and i will use that as an excuse to do absolutly nothing, and loving every minute of it.🙂😎
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Update.
So, got myselfe a multimeter and it seems both ignition coils are faulty. All caps but one is also shot (extremly high resistans in two) I get good reading from the secondary surcit but primary is completly dead on both coils.
Any advice on if i should get new stock coils from David Silva or new Magna coils? (Dynatek is just to expensive). The bike has Dynatek electronic egnition fitted.
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Very unusual for both coils to go< if fact unusual for any coil to go on primary, resistance is very low so worth reckecking with different meter
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Have you seen Ash's coil fix Magnus? As previously said by Bryan, general consensus is it very unusual for stock coils to fail -
http://info.sohc.co.uk/download/ashs-ignition-coil-fix-2/
This post will also give advice on checking coil values (from memory)
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I will check again with another meter and thank you for the link.
With that said, the problems keep flooding in. I removed the assembly behind the left side cover to check faulty wires and a general cleanup. Checked for continuity and all seemed ok, no broken wires etc. Reassembled everything aaaaaaaaand.....the bike is completly dead, no lights no nothing, just utterly dead. Iv changed nothing between removing the assembly (starter selenoid etc) and reinstaling it again, very carefully i might add. Its like the fuse popped except it hasnt.
Im on the verge of giving up. I will check everything again and after, if i dont find the problem, its of to the lowest bidder im affraid (Have several other projects that need attention to and there are only so many days in a year).
I mean, everything except the coils and the sub assembly behind the left sidecover is brand new so how many culprits can there really be?
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If you mean that little cover on the left next to the coils, that's where the main earth wire goes to the frame on mine. Is that OK ?, have you disturbed a poor earth connection ?
Worth a look maybe....
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I mixed it up before, its secondary surcit om the coils that are faulty. Managed to get hold of 2 secondhand ones and they confirm its not my multimeter thats showing wrong. So i now, at least, i have 2 working coils (for now) but im starting to wonder if there is a problem with the voltage regulator maby, giving to mutch voltage burning stuff?
I will keep digging and rechecking earth wires etc but the whole system going dark makes me think something happend to the egnition switch, maby due to mutch voltage?
Only times i ever seen system going dark before is because of main fuse blowing (not the case here). The next thing i can think of is the egnition switch.
P.S. Thank you all for your input and hoppfully i will solve it in the end.
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If you mean that little cover on the left next to the coils, that's where the main earth wire goes to the frame on mine. Is that OK ?, have you disturbed a poor earth connection ?
Worth a look maybe....
Sry, i meant the subassembly behind the sidecover below the seat.
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Check all the connections again, it's quite common for one of the connectors to get pushed out as your connecting the 2 block connectors, also check for corrosion. It's clear you've just disturbed a connection that is vital, in particular check the connector to the fuse.
Will check again. I made fresh new connections to the fuse but will try again. It just has to be that or the egnition switch.
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I think i have solved the problem (i think).
The original issue was that the turn signals and oil lamp didnt work. Turns out those two cables was switched on the new main harness, grey to blue/red. So now that issue is solved. So thats a tip for those who buy new "quallity" replacement parts. Allways check so that wires isnt in the wrong place.
My second issue ended in the bike going dark. After checking all the connections and confirming that everything was fine i finally came up with the idea to bypass the starter relay and viola, it all works. Now i need to order a second hand starter relay and everything should be ok. The relay turns the starter motor if i bridge the two terminals but it doesnt seem to let through any power from the battery to the main harness.
I need to check the voltage regulator so that isnt the cause giving to mutch voltage. Maby that killed the switch and even the coils (should have blown a few bulbs first i would think)?
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Good work Sherlock, keep us updated. ;D
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I belive odd job is right with his theory
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It doesnt matter which way round the big cables go but it does matter which one the small red goes to which is the one from battery
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I belive odd job is right with his theory
Yes, the yellow/red and black wire is "pointing" towards the airbox if that makes sense.
Hopefully a replacement relay will solve everything.
I did have to replace the coils since they where faulty to.
Is it just random that both coils and starter relay malfunctioned at the same time? Voltage regulator?
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It doesnt matter which way round the big cables go but it does matter which one the small red goes to which is the one from battery
Please kill me now.
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Was that it?
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Was that it?
The reason the bike went dark, yes.🥴 How embarrassing.
I will argue with anyone that the issue with the turn signals and oil lamp was way more complicated. And i fixed it by my selfe.🤪
Thank you for the tip.👍
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Not actually done that one but have seen it before
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Not actually done that one but have seen it before
Just seemed natural that thats where the wire should be due to the shape of the wire and layout. Even took a picture of it, but after i loosend the terminals with the red wire right above the left terminal. It simply moved over by it selfe. Oh well. Im just glad it was a easy fix.
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Bugger sorting out the self adjusting parts!!
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No Ken, just turning into a gof like me
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Bugger sorting out the self adjusting parts!!
😄
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Thank you for all the help.
Replaced the coils and fitted new NGK plug caps. Everything looks ok and i got a nice strong spark. Turn signals and oil lamp is now working.
Now its just the final assembly and the bike should be completed, fingers crossed.
Thank you all again.
/Magnus