Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 15, 2023, 06:17:13 PM
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I'm trying to read the codes for the big end shells as there are no big end shell colour codes visible.
All four webs seem to have the same letter but can't decide if it's an A or a B it looks more like a B.
The conrods for 1,2 & 3 are marked [2] with number 4 conrod marked [3] all have the letter [F] on them.
What are the views here please?
Any advise as to shell colour code welcome.
If its a letter B I'm thinking they would have been 3 x Brown, 1 x Black.
..(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52628871981_76f7a46ea1_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obCJ5v)codes on crank web (https://flic.kr/p/2obCJ5v) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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The lettering is not visible on my phone but is on my PC - the clearest mark is on number 2 journal RHS web.
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Wash the crank with petrol or something that dissolves the oil film. As it dries you stand the best chance of seeing the codes then. Don’t forget it’s letter-number, so as the letters are on the crankcasing at the back it’s the number you need for the mains, that means you need the letter off the crank and the number off the rod to work out the bearing. The letters on the rods should all be the same as it’s the weight code so the crank is balanced.
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On the mains shells the colour codes are clearly visible on four of the bearings. I was worried that cleaning the crank with petrol might remove the black letter marks. I guess I've nothing to loose really. I did wonder if using all black shells might be a way forwards. DS has them in stock for the big ends.
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If you fit all black you will need to run it in a while, instead of being ready to go straight away
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If you fit all black you will need to run it in a while, instead of being ready to go straight away
It would be my last option tbh I would sooner buy a new pair of green & brown shells & plastiguage them.
These are the shells I have removed I think they need replacing just due to the white metal wear & odd pitting type marks what's your view Bryan.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52630218891_d9d524e213_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obKCt6)No 1 Big End shells (https://flic.kr/p/2obKCt6) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52630659855_0da0b98a19_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obMTxV)No 2 Big End shell (https://flic.kr/p/2obMTxV) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52630659835_52ca0e935a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obMTxz)No 3 Big End shells (https://flic.kr/p/2obMTxz) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52629702562_ceb1af4397_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obGYYS)No 4 Big End shells (https://flic.kr/p/2obGYYS) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Yes Ted, i am beging to suspect the man i got it from told me porkies, they look like oil not changed often enough to me mate, sorry
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Those shells are fecked and with that much damage the crank could be worn ;)
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Ted,
Before you spend any money on shells, I would get that crank measured, especially the right hand side (in your pic) main bearing journal - that centre ridge is very noticeable, even with my eyesight! The big end journals don't look quite so bad but they have full width shells which can hide the truth.
A normal mic anvil might go on the worn section but even a carefully used digital vernier should pick that wear up.
Ian
Graham, does anybody metal spray and re-grind bike cranks these days?
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Agree with Trigger and Ian. I’d be very cautious over that crank. A good clean up, inspection and measure is required.
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I’d also be checking for debris in the crank oil ways…though I’m sure you will be onto that too.
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T
Graham, does anybody metal spray and re-grind bike cranks these days?
I used SEP in Kegworth years ago....
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Ted, goes without saying, but the oil pump and galleries would benefit from close inspection too?
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There is certainly some ridging on a few of the main bearings that I can feel with my fingernail the best out of all 5 bearings is journal number 5.
Big ends are okay but not put a micro-meter on anything yet.
There was muck in the sump pick up screen filter & in the main oil gallery if that what it's called where the end caps sit.
Here are the mains shell pics.
https://flic.kr/p/2obPakN
https://flic.kr/p/2obLGKa
https://flic.kr/p/2obNXoy
https://flic.kr/p/2obNXoi
https://flic.kr/p/2obPajL
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Ted,
Before you spend any money on shells, I would get that crank measured, especially the right hand side (in your pic) main bearing journal - that centre ridge is very noticeable, even with my eyesight! The big end journals don't look quite so bad but they have full width shells which can hide the truth.
A normal mic anvil might go on the worn section but even a carefully used digital vernier should pick that wear up.
Ian
Graham, does anybody metal spray and re-grind bike cranks these days?
It is not cost affective, as the price is per journal.
We used to metal spray and regrind CX500 cranks back to take green shells but, that is only one con rod journal . It was a common problem that was caused by the owner that CX cranks got fecked and it depended on the owner if he kept riding it to the extent of ovaled the con rods and if they still kept riding, then the rod would snap and go through the gear box. Stopping the bike dead in slow traffic or throwing them down the tarmac at speed ;)
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Ted,
Before you spend any money on shells, I would get that crank measured, especially the right hand side (in your pic) main bearing journal - that centre ridge is very noticeable, even with my eyesight! The big end journals don't look quite so bad but they have full width shells which can hide the truth.
A normal mic anvil might go on the worn section but even a carefully used digital vernier should pick that wear up.
Ian
Graham, does anybody metal spray and re-grind bike cranks these days?
Thanks Ian that has certainly made me look closer at the crankshaft - the big end journals do not have any obvious ridging but the mains certainly do have some ridges that I can feel with my finger nail. Number1 & 4 seem the worse with Number 5 being okay.
Not sure what the availability of good used cranks is on a 500 - I remember back in the day about metal spraying on car cranks.
Not sure what effect the mains ridging would have on a five bearing crank.
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Ted, one of those number 4 mains looks like it was fitted with grit or other crap between it and the case. Have you been into the oil pump yet? (Like Sesman indicated) The problem with new shells on worn cranks as you probably know is that the oil pressure will suffer as the oil has an easy escape route.
If good, useable 500 cranks are made from unobtainium, then even a costly metal spraying and re-grinding job might still be worth it - dunno, not checked prices. The last one I had done was a very simple Triumph Twenty One.
Ian
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Not dismantled the pump yet.
I've found a crank on e bay but no real idea as to condition.
Update:- Oil pump is in good condition just some feint blotching in places - possibly from standing / water separation.
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That sounds great Ted,
Can you get some really detailed pics of all journals from the seller - perhaps even honest, accurate dimensions?
Ian
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That sounds great Ted,
Can you get some really detailed pics of all journals from the seller - perhaps even honest, accurate dimensions?
Ian
The seller has a returns policy & has a pretty good reputation so I've made an offer - I bought a rear brake plate from him a few weeks ago that was as he described so i'm optimistic.
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Offer accepted - he who dares ?
Or a fool & his money.
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Crank has arrived today - no ridges looks good. When crank & micrometer are both at room temperature I will measure it up.
Not undone the conrods yet.
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👍👍 Great. News Ted.
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NIce one Ted, splendid. ;)
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So far so good just undone conrods the bearings are like new so will not need replacing - I'll check with Platigauge but good start.
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Splendid Ted, there's a leg up for you mate
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About time I had some good luck - not having to buy replacement big end shells will offset against the crank cost quite substantially.
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Quite!
Least you haven't done, forks, lowers, wheels and a new frame!!!
Think you're doing OK mate ;D