550 K1 : up-shifting issues (mostly low RPMs)

[Erny]

Time to work on another iusse I'd like to fix (low prio till now).

I have shifting issues on lower RPMs, typically when cruising in city traffic or smooth ride (slow acceleration, shifing on low RPM up to 3-4k)
It is almost impossibble to shift up from 1->2, 2->3, 3->4 nomal way, practially always neutral appears (between 1 and 2) or false neutral between 2-3 and 3-4.
4->5 usually works

Scenario:
When I shift, I move lever all way up and feel I cannot move more, like there is some block, more force does not help, so only neutral is engaged. If I try to keep it lifted up longer I feel block is released and upper gear is engaged, but not always. Most of the time I have to release cluch and lever, then press again clutch and then i can shift from neutral to upper gear.
You can imagine it is very annoying when starting from traffic lights, you want to be fast, but then 1-neutral-2...shame

What is strange, shifting 2->3, 3->4 works fine in higher RPMs (stronger acceleration), or at least I don't observe it. Shifting 1-2 in higher RPMs is not perfect too (neutral appears) but better than in lower RPMs.

Donwnshifting is OK, all gears, all RPMs.

Clutch works perfectly, very smooth.

I suppose this is not just a  standard "feature" of 550.
Was thinking if it can be related to oil used?
I use mineral MOTUL 4T 3000, 20W 50, the same as on my CB750 K7 (that works perfect)

Any other ideas?
Should I be worried that I need to open engine? It was not open yet, 15.000 miles on the clock.

[Johnwebley]

Try just partially pulling in the clutch.
Sounds like the gears are not turning at relative speeds. So they don't mesh and engage.

In many ways. It is more difficult to ride slowly than fast

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[robvangulik]

You are (trying to) ride it like a Harley.

You can imagine it is very annoying when starting from traffic lights, you want to be fast, but then 1-neutral-2...shame

If you want to be fast, why are you shifting before 3-4 k rpm? How fast are you going in first gear with those revs? 15 mph?

[Erny]

You are (trying to) ride it like a Harley.

You can imagine it is very annoying when starting from traffic lights, you want to be fast, but then 1-neutral-2...shame

If you want to be fast, why are you shifting before 3-4 k rpm? How fast are you going in first gear with those revs? 15 mph?

does not make sense to deeply discuss it, it is depedning on situation, style, mood...simply why not? Shifting in low RPMs was never a problem for any other bike I had or I have, except this one.
So that's why I'm asking if it is normal or not.

[Nurse Julie]

Totally random thought here....have you had gear change lever off recently and if so, did you reposition it correctly on the spline with the dot on the spline and the dot on the lever lined up? I also find my gear change is very tight in all gears at low revs when the engine is hot....this is a normal thing with these old Hondas and many forum members experience this.

[K2-K6]

I can't see the oil making much difference to it.

Most bike gearboxes are constant mesh,  meaning the paired gears are running together all of the time so you don't ordinarily engage the teeth to change gear.

The gearbox dogs are how each ratio is connected in sequence to direct drive through each pair required. These aren't usually obstructive as they have significant spaces to move them in and out of position.

The problem you describe "sounds" like you've possibly got one or more of the selector forks bent.  What this does is not push the gear being moved all the way into its correct engagement,  making it easy for the forces applied to push it back out from where you are trying to place it with the lever.  That's how false neutrals can occur.

IF that is the case, it can't ordinarily be seen without dismantling to check the selector forks as far as I'm aware.

[K2-K6]

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It's these forks that can be susceptible to bending that we discussed on another thread.  These were for sale which I believe a forum member bought to replace some damaged in their own engine.

The 750 gearboxes appears to be less affected on their own versions of these forks,  so although a bit clunky sometimes they are generally tough and operate correctly.

[Bryanj]

It is worth removing clutch cover and clutch to inspect the gearchange mechanism.
All of that has to come off to split the cases so it is not wasted work.
The problem you have i have never heard of on the 550 so you are flying blind and looking for something unusual.
Remember Mcgintys third law:-
In a piece of machinery, no matter how reliable, at least one of everything will wear out sometime somewhere.

[matthewmosse]

Not sure what gearbox bits a 550k1 has compared to cb500 or cb550k3 which is what I have experienced but on either when running and setup right they have been really nice and slick through the gearbox - my cb500/4 was regularly able to go from my place up in the hills of Mid Wales all the way to my  girlfriends ( now wife ) old place in Talbot green by Cardiff, that's over 90 miles mixed A, B roads plus dual carriageway and back onto B roads and in the entire trip I would only need to use the clutch 3 times, the rest of the time I could just shift through the gearbox smoothly with not even the clutch being touched or any clunks. That is the measure of a good cb 500 gearbox, not sure my cb550 was quite as silky smooth, but close.
I had a few cb500 and 550 gearboxes act like you describe or more stubborn - yet at standstill they go though the box perfectly. I'm afraid I never bothered to resolve the issue, I had other engines so these stubborn ones are still in the loft. At least 1 was newly rebuilt by me from good used bits and all looked in good shape - I suspect it was something like the clutch pushrod on that  one, as it was a 3 part affair with a ball bearing - I now believe that's not exactly as Honda intended. Back then I was using a cb550 manual as a guide and did not have this excellent forum to trawl through or ask for help.

[Bryanj]

All the 550's are theme except for upgrades during manufacturing life but are completely different from 500

[matthewmosse]

Searching back through my memory I did have similar gearshift issues off a cb550, was something undef the clutch cover, cannot remember what. Mostly I remember tipping then bike over so as to not loose the oil while fixing it.

[Erny]

I was afraid of this feedback... Opening engine was something I wanted to avoid

[Nurse Julie]

I was afraid of this feedback... Opening engine was something I wanted to avoid

With only 15,000 miles Erny, I would consider and investigate all other options before taking the engine apart.

[Erny]

Sure! Opening engine is the LAST action.
It is pity that gearbox cannot be replaced w/o opening cases like on nowadays bikes

[matthewmosse]

Start on clutch casing and release mechanism, I have a hunch that was where my problem lay. How good is the clutch cable? Start with the easy stuff.