550 F2 started!

[mickwinf]

could it be the starter clutch mechanism?

[Laverdaroo]

OK, so under investsigation yet again, the starter is doing the 'parp' as I hold it in my hand and power up so new end caps sorted and a fix on the way. Under inspection yesterday I saw and heard no issue but session 2 has thrown up  the full fault and I can replicate it so 99.9%, that's the offending issue.
Winning!

BUT............... and you knew there was going to be a but, this brings me to a point  brought up whilst talking to a fellow miserable, sarcastic northerner this evening who righty says or questioned. why does it do the 'parp' when you swich the engine off, it shouldn't be spinning?

Technically, as soon as you've let go of the start button, the starter isn't powered up and stops spinning. Other wise if it kept going it would be the same speed as the engine and would probably blow up at 9k on the tacho with yer chin on the tank?.

So it obviously makes the 'parp' as the motor is spinning up to speed, ok, and when the motor is turned off, presumably at a similar speed as it slows?

If I poke my finger into the hole onto the idler gear I can turn it only one way but not the other as its against the turn of the internals indicating it's maybe  the balbearings in the cush assembly in the drum, one on the wonk or something and its taking up the slack ....................Bas*ard!!

I'll take the pan off tomorrow night and poke about and see if anything is visible but also we discussed there being a thread on folk getting to all the internals somehow through the pan......anyone read/seen anything or indeed carried out the operation? It will be a pig I should think but its game on and needs doing so before I fire the parts cannon, just checking to see if anybody has any experience.

thanks all, shit happen's I'll sort it
 

[Trigger]

The starter clutch can make some clattering if worn. Did you replace all the parts in the starter clutch and did you check the cog surface ?

[Trigger]

There is a picture of a bad ring gear cog half way down this page >> http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,20419.120.html

Start striping and check every part as you remove and double check on reassembly 

[Laverdaroo]

Yes and yes,  new rubbers the lot hence why I might have buggered up putting in the nall bearings. I didn't think so and thought it was all good, but it fits the symptoms as a possible so I need to look and trying not to split the cases as I'm sure you can understand    

[Trigger]

I know it is a bummer but, as my old man always said : it is all a part of growing up and learning 

[Oddjob]

I can't find it right now Roo but on the USA SOHC site there was a large thread about removing the primary chain hub through the sump, something I must add I thought was impossible until I saw pics of it being done. This was quite a few years ago and this makes it very difficult to find especially as our American cousins lump all the SOHC engines into one section so searching for primary drive etc gives you loads of results from 750s and such. The way I remember it being done was to remove the sump, engine was still in frame BTW, remove the primary shaft (use the lower footrest bolt as a slide hammer with a foot peg still on there, if you don't have one), make sure you catch the thrust washer as it drops out, tilt the drive and it will wiggle out with a little effort. Getting it back in was the same, I'd imagine getting the thrust washer to stay inn place could be difficult so remove the oil pump so you can dangle it off a screwdriver or something.

I have 2 spare primary hubs out of 550s just lying around, welcome to one if you need one, bloody heavy things though so maybe just need the starter ring part?

Of course if replacing/repairing the starter motor works then it won't be needed to be done.

[Sesman]

This fecker.

[Trigger]

Going in through the sump is fine if you are changing the starter roller kit, if you know what the problem then that is fine. But, i would advise stripping the engine to diagnose a problem. There is no point in doing half a job and it maybe a couple of problems that could be elsewhere in the engine or something simple that may have been missed.

[Sesman]

Good advice Trig. I think in this case though Roo has identified the issue….thank goodness.

[Laverdaroo]

Yeah, the fact that the idler gear isn’t idling indicates that the starter farting has identified a more serious issue with the idler and starter clutch. I don’t see the value in stripping everything to do a job that can be tackled in a less time consuming fashion or more cost effective way.

I shall be taking the path of least resistance on this, if it turns out that my digits are too large to make it satisfactory or indeed possible as I’ve got bunches of bananas for fingers,  then a strip will happen but that’s the last case scenario at the moment.

Research is my first port of call.


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[Laverdaroo]

Phil, can you send me a page link to that bud, just what’s in the search bar and bob it over and I’ll have a read at break time?

Cheers cocker.


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[Johnny4428]

Roo, it’s a daunting prospect the thought of having to remove engine and strip down again so naturally you would try any alternative to sort it out. I had to take the engine out of the 550 after having it run but wasn’t happy with it, I covered up and couldn’t look at it for 6 months 😡😡. Confidence in my own ability was just one of the problems! So glad I did take the engine out and strip it right down. Found a couple of issues to sort. Imagine how I felt when I had to remove engine in the 750 as well after it had been done.😡😡😡. But decided to tackle it right away so I could get the summer out on it. I wasn’t daunted by having to strip the engines again, I was only daunted by getting the engine out and back in without damage. So if the worst comes to worst Roo just get in there! Rooting for ya! “We do it right cos we do it twice” 😁😁

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Listening to that noise it reminded me of a dry starter Bendix on a car. The trick back in the day before pre-engaged solenoids were a thing was to lubricate the solenoid unit. Lazy folk would use a small drill to put a hole in the bell housing in the right spot so you could squirt some oil in - some plugged the hole some didn't.

 I certainly would not be rushing to remove the engine. I would be looking at making sure everything I can reach is fully lubricated with
a light grade of oil if it's outside the engine using engine oil elsewhere. Did you use any oil when you were rebuilding the gearbox etc. If you use the kick start does that still result in the noise at any point?
It's a dry of oil sound to me as a complete amateur or something too sticky causing a drag somewhere. Does it still make that sound when the engine has earmed up?

[Sesman]

https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php?topic=9173.0

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=122084.0